I've bought a Peugeot for a fiver.

[Togalosh]

Hello Gents,

I'm in Provence/Rhone Alps, South of France for the week & could not resist a look around a Jumble Sale & found a few nice things (& a lot of very distressed (ok knackered) woodies with very badly 'sharpened' or rusted blades which were left alone).

I did get this Peugeot Freres Blade - what do you think ?

L 186 x W 141.5 x T 3 (top section) 3.5 (at the edge)

70mm from the edge the blade has a bulge in it's thickness which is difficult to show in a photo & there's a black finish from there to the top, is this where 2 different metals are joined?.. for 5€ I thought it was worth a punt & maybe it'll get me on my way to making a woody or infill myself.

Are there any other manufacturers that I should keep an eye out for ..y'know just in case I happen to stumble across something?

Merci
Togs

 

[Vann]

L 186 x W 141.5 x T 3 (top section) 3.5 (at the edge)

How wide :shock: ?

70mm from the edge the blade has a bulge in it's thickness .... there's a black finish from there to the top, is this where 2 different metals are joined?

I have no experience with Peugeot but, there seem to have been two ways to a good steel edge (without a 100% good steel iron). One was to laminate a thin layer of good steel to a mild steel or iron backing, the other was to weld a full thickness piece to a piece of mild steel or iron. In either case usually the good steel will only extend about 40 - 50mm from the leading edge - usually up to the slot for a slotted iron. It seems maybe Peugeot are a little more generous...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndyT]

I think that's an ideal excuse to have a go!

You'll have noticed that there is no hole to attach a cap iron. This could be because the blade came from a plane that did not have one. But the French did persist with the very awkward design of an uncut iron + a cap iron, held together just by the wedge. (There must be some special French swearwords to help with getting the three bits all in line perfectly by careful tap-tap-tapping!) I have a plane like that which I bought in a 'vide-grenier' on holiday once.

As for other makes, Goldenberg seem to have had nearly as many pictorial trade marks as Peugeot did. There are nice moulding planes around from "Aux Mines de Suede" (see this old thread https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/french-moulding-planes-t39638.html)

For more info on the extraordinary different range of planes in the French tradition, this website gives a nice taster:

http://www.rabovarlophile.com/

and this forum will suck you ever deeper!

http://outils-anciens.xooit.fr/index.php

 

[MIGNAL]

I think that I have two or three Peugeot blades. One of them being toothed for preparing a veneer substrate.
The Steel seems decent enough. Pretty much on par with most of the old Sheffield blades that I have. If there is a difference, I haven't noticed it.

 

[Togalosh]

L 186 x W 141.5 x T 3 (top section) 3.5 (at the edge)

How wide :shock: ?

Cheers, Vann.

Yes it's massive..my mistake that is.. 41.5mm.

Now I see that there's a darker colour to the underside (edge side?) that runs out just after the bulge.. this is only of passing interest as I too think that as long as it works it'll be a bargain.

Thanks for the links Andy but mon francias est pa bon to say the least .. & yes all woodies have 3 pieces in the frog (iron, other steel & wedge)

Look at this lot..most of them are riddled with woodworm though...like most wooden things in these parts.

but the fore plane is in good nick with a Peugeot iron much the same as before.. but what do you think's a good price ?

55€ is the ticket price.. so it stayed put. It was nice n heavy & pretty big by what I've seen before... but just too pricey methinks. It had a maker's/owner's stamp with what I think is an anchor in the centre.

Togs

 

[Richard T]

55 euro is tres grand indeed ...

At the car boot at Long Marsden, English equivalents can be had for £5 tops - £2 more likely.

I know it's tempting to spend more when on hols but that is a bit steep I feel.

 

[AndyT]

Hmm - I'd have left it there too, but then (a) I'm a bit tight when buying old tools which may turn out to be less usable than hoped, and (b) I have no knowledge of the old tool market in France.

But on the other hand it's more use than several boxes of old Johnny Halliday LPs!

Why not make him an offer? He may be fed up with carrying it around!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

1 5/8" uncut iron? Sounds like the basis of a wooden scrub or fore plane.....

 

[Togalosh]

1 5/8" uncut iron? Sounds like the basis of a wooden scrub or fore plane.....

..it'll have to wait for my skills to improve but that's the idea, although I'd not thought of a scrub plane..best find out what 1 is now.


Thanks Andy & Richard for confirming my suspicions but I didn't think it was so much more expensive than UK finds.. blimey. It will have to turn to dust along with his other planes & furniture.

.. & a quick poke about his 1000's of LP's showed that Johnny Halliday must've seemed like a musical genius in comparison.

Togs

 

[Cheshirechappie]

My apologies Togs - I rather stupidly assumed that everybody knew what a scrub plane was.

A scrub plane is a smallish, fairly coarse plane used for the first roughing-down of sawn timber to dimensions. They are particularly useful for getting rid of gross humps and bumps on boards that may be warped or twisted. Older ones were often made from worn-out wooden smoothers, but commercial metal-bodied ones are available. Both Lie-Nielsen and Veritas do them, and occasional secondhand oldies turn up.

The characteristics are a narrowish blade with an aggressive camber (about 3" radius has been quoted somewhere), a very wide mouth (1/4" to 1/2") and plenty of clearance for shavings. A wooden one would make a very good first plane-making project, because they don't need much precision. Any shape will do - think wooden smoother with parallel sides and nice roundings-off to make it fit the hands. The Krenov-type construction of a front block, a heel block with the blade bed at about 45 degrees, and two sides glued on would make an excellent scrub.

Scrub planes are usually used across the grain, attacking the high points of a board and taking them off. Once the board is level, a try plane can be used along the grain to take out the wavy texture left by the scrub, and bring the surface smooth, 'tried and true'.

They are a very useful tool for the handtool only worker, and still useful for the person with planer-thicknesser of limited capacity, since wide boards can be surfaced with them without having to rip the board and subsequently re-join.

 

[Corneel]

I just wrote a blog and made a short video about what a scrubplane is all about.

http://seekelot.blogspot.nl/2013/05/the-scrub-plane.html

French planes are sometime made from cormier wood. I think servicetree is the english name. A heavy hard wood, even better then beech and quite beautifull. But often eaten by worms, like you saw overthere.

 

[Togalosh]

A wooden one would make a very good first plane-making project, because they don't need much precision. Any shape will do

That's my kind of project ! ..& that is the plane I'm missing too as I have a wide, ugly, warped board to work one day..which I paid far too much for but that's another story.

Thanks CC

 

[Togalosh]

I just wrote a blog and made a short video about what a scrubplane is all about.

http://seekelot.blogspot.nl/2013/05/the-scrub-plane.html

French planes are sometime made from cormier wood. I think servicetree is the english name. A heavy hard wood, even better then beech and quite beautifull. But often eaten by worms, like you saw overthere.

Very effective tool ..& good video... why is the plane so short though..would it be too much like hard work otherwise ?

Cormier wood ?? Never heard of it but a quick googling showed that it does look like a lot (if not all) of 1/2 eaten furniture & tools down here. It is beautiful but if it's so edible why they persist in using it so much can only be due to there socialist political leanings...or perhaps it's price.

Baie danki

 

[Corneel]

Why so short? In the first place, because it is a German plane and all their planes (except the jointers) are the same length. And for this kind of work where you are working with very crooked timbers, short is nice. Easy to reach everywhere.

 

[wem]

Nice

 

[Togalosh]

Why so short? In the first place, because it is a German plane and all their planes (except the jointers) are the same length. And for this kind of work where you are working with very crooked timbers, short is nice. Easy to reach everywhere.

That makes sense.

What wood do you recommend?
I only use reclaimed exotic/non European wood so it might be a while before I happen across anything too fancy.

 

[Corneel]

For a wooden plane? Nothing wrong with quartersawn, very well dried, beech. Apple was used too in the past and sometimes maple. I have a piece of padouk bookmarked for a long jointer plane. One day....

 

[Togalosh]

For a wooden plane? Nothing wrong with quartersawn, very well dried, beech. Apple was used too in the past and sometimes maple. I have a piece of padouk bookmarked for a long jointer plane. One day....

Apple ?!.. is it really hard enough ?

I've not heard apple used for anything other than smoking fish.

 

[rxh]

Apple is hard and close grained. It is good for tool handles and mallets and I believe it was traditionally used for making the teeth of wooden gears in windmills and watermills. It does move quite a bit when drying out.

 

[Corneel]

Apple sure is softer then beech. Some german planes were made from apple with a hornbeam sole. But you also see planes from apple only. Hornbeam btw is excellent stuff too for planes. Lots of old german and austrian planes were made from hornbeam.