It's hard to believe, but stanley still makes a #7

[Jarno]

Don't agree on the extreme engineering statement regarding Bridge City, that's not proper engineering. That plane and smaller one is usable, but has a lot of features that are not supporting the basic functionality of a plane. Too many screws which tend to loosen. Anodised aluminium which is certainly not a plus for woodworking.
Even though it looks fancy, there are choices in the design which are not based on proper engineering, and some are just clumsy. There is some niftiness in there, but also some things which are just stupid. It's optimised for production in China, not for extreme quality.

 

[D_W]

Don't agree on the extreme engineering statement regarding Bridge City, that's not proper engineering. That plane and smaller one is usable, but has a lot of features that are not supporting the basic functionality of a plane. Too many screws which tend to loosen. Anodised aluminium which is certainly not a plus for woodworking.
Even though it looks fancy, there are choices in the design which are not based on proper engineering, and some are just clumsy. There is some niftiness in there, but also some things which are just stupid. It's optimised for production in China, not for extreme quality.

There probably has not been anything invented for hand tool woodworking in the last 100 years that really makes woodworking easier. There are some things that look more usable to beginners or easier to understand, but they're limiting if they the stopping point - which isn't a huge deal if most people migrate toward power tools, anyway.

Sandpaper has improved some - but I'm not sure if it's really improved for woodworking so much as it has probably improved as it replaces the silicon carbide wet wheels for rough work.

Engineering used to be a term for refinement, process, implementation, efficiency improvement.

For some reason, it's been translated into a marketing term now. "this guy over here can just think of something better than what came out of millions or billions of man hours in a competitive market".

 

[Lefley]

When I say small I say small . Thiss plane is awesome to take the edge off s door or quick fit a small piece. Hope I find loss if! Lol.

 

[Jarno]

Do you leave the side skates on all the time? Seems they are in the way of properly holding it, and are useful only in a few very specific cases?
I believe this plane was also in the chopstick making and pencil making kits (and can imagine it is useful when making kumiko, about to butcher a recent record 60 1/2 plane to add thickness planing cabability, for this purpose).

 

[Lefley]

Do you leave the side skates on all the time? Seems they are in the way of properly holding it, and are useful only in a few very specific cases?
I believe this plane was also in the chopstick making and pencil making kits (and can imagine it is useful when making kumiko, about to butcher a recent record 60 1/2 plane to add thickness planing cabability, for this purpose).

No I take the side skates off. I purchased 2 as where on sale. The one in the picture is a gift. Mines at work with no sides!

 

[Lefley]

Do you leave the side skates on all the time? Seems they are in the way of properly holding it, and are useful only in a few very specific cases?
I believe this plane was also in the chopstick making and pencil making kits (and can imagine it is useful when making kumiko, about to butcher a recent record 60 1/2 plane to add thickness planing cabability, for this purpose).

Yes it would not be two hard to add side skates to any planes. Drill 4 holes and tap.

 

[D_W]

I don't mind the plastic handles that much, at least they're likely the right shape.
Two near or identical planes, but one is nicer as the tote is more forward leaning,
which is most noticeable when held single handed, as it seems lighter being ever so much closer to the toe.
View attachment 144394

Orientation and location of the handle (orientation being the angle and the shape) are huge. if a handle is good, the pressure will be biased in the web of the thumb with a hump in the middle of the palm so that you can use the plane without fatiguing your wrist or gripping tightly.

All of the early/mid 1800s plane handles were made that way and so are almost all stanley handles until they get to be super late.

it's interesting that you can notice even small differences on the same brand and type of plane (but you can, of course).

Early 1800s tall handles sometimes seem to be lacking some of the hump, and the cutout for the web of the thumb is "tucked high" near the top of the handle (less comfortable). I think it's fair to say that handles weren't mature yet for double iron types vs. the older style of planes with short offset handles more intended to be used two handed.

 

[D_W]

This listing is coming from the UK (the plane I ordered). I don't have a prime membership, but my wife does. It wouldn't have made any difference in this case, except she can contest when the box comes instead of complaining twice.

that said, the free shipping was "until October 14-17", but I could've paid $40 or something more to get expedited shipping that would have the plane here october 4. I won't have time really to faff with the plane until late october, anyway - I guess I will record everything from box open, to terminal fault if there is one.

Anyway, I got a ship notice this morning from DHL - arriving october 4. This happens often in the US - it starts to make it less and less clear what the benefit of Prime is, which goes up in price every year. that is, prime used to be 2 day everything. quite often it's 1 for us in the burbs, but we're never on the edge of the seat for small items like that. If they came in 5 days, it would be fine. Also common is a prime item that no longer comes in 2 but comes in 4. AS in, it seems like if amazon has it local, you get it quickly - if they don't, they're not longer in any kind of hurry at all, despite the price increase.

When I order non-prime, they threaten slow shipping instead and after I buy something and opt not to pay for it, I get the item in two days, or in this case, on the pace of the expedited international shipping option that would've cost extra if I chose it.

nice.

 

[D_W]

That aside DHL beats up packages like nobody else as far as my local deliverers. I've gotten guitars with forklift holes in the sides of boxes, crushed on the sides, whatever it may be. They also have trick customer service. As in, if you put in an enquiry for something that's arriving late, you get an automated message instead of a CS response, and so far, I've only gotten human follow up that's promised within a day five days or a week later after the item finally arrives. A handy way of avoiding doing anything in the interim.

It'll be interesting to see if the plane arrives as some of the reviewers mention - broken bits or parts loose flying around in the box.

 

[Jarno]

Out of curiosity, what is the monthly cost of Prime in the US? Over here (NL) it is 3 euros a month, which is a no brainer (IMHO) for Prime Video and free shipping. We also have Disney+ from when the kids where a bit smaller, but that's 8 euros a month, and the kids have seen everything already (kids stuff, marvel), so yeah.

 

[Jameshow]

This listing is coming from the UK (the plane I ordered). I don't have a prime membership, but my wife does. It wouldn't have made any difference in this case, except she can contest when the box comes instead of complaining twice.

that said, the free shipping was "until October 14-17", but I could've paid $40 or something more to get expedited shipping that would have the plane here october 4. I won't have time really to faff with the plane until late october, anyway - I guess I will record everything from box open, to terminal fault if there is one.

Anyway, I got a ship notice this morning from DHL - arriving october 4. This happens often in the US - it starts to make it less and less clear what the benefit of Prime is, which goes up in price every year. that is, prime used to be 2 day everything. quite often it's 1 for us in the burbs, but we're never on the edge of the seat for small items like that. If they came in 5 days, it would be fine. Also common is a prime item that no longer comes in 2 but comes in 4. AS in, it seems like if amazon has it local, you get it quickly - if they don't, they're not longer in any kind of hurry at all, despite the price increase.

When I order non-prime, they threaten slow shipping instead and after I buy something and opt not to pay for it, I get the item in two days, or in this case, on the pace of the expedited international shipping option that would've cost extra if I chose it.

nice.

We need an unboxing video!!

 

[D_W]

We need an unboxing video!!

'
well, that's enough encouragement for me, I guess! i'll open it when it arrives just to make sure that it's not completely broken into pieces, but record it and then late in the month, I'll see if it's defective and what it needs to work at an obscenely precise level. If nothing is totally defective on it, it probably won't be much other than prep of the iron and cap and flattening the sole.

 

[Lefley]

Out of curiosity, what is the monthly cost of Prime in the US? Over here (NL) it is 3 euros a month, which is a no brainer (IMHO) for Prime Video and free shipping. We also have Disney+ from when the kids where a bit smaller, but that's 8 euros a month, and the kids have seen everything already (kids stuff, marvel), so yeah.

$10 per l month canada

 

[D_W]

Out of curiosity, what is the monthly cost of Prime in the US? Over here (NL) it is 3 euros a month, which is a no brainer (IMHO) for Prime Video and free shipping. We also have Disney+ from when the kids where a bit smaller, but that's 8 euros a month, and the kids have seen everything already (kids stuff, marvel), so yeah.

I think it's either $119 or $139.

They have the super customer friendly rule that if you try to cancel it before the renewal date, you lose the rest of your term (no automatic shutoff). If you wait a smidge too long, it re-renews on you. There may be terms that you can call and cancel it within a set number of hours, but I haven't checked. Long story short, I don't know for sure what it is currently because it always surprises me with an email that it renewed and I always think "damn...I would've thought about not letting it renew if it gave me a heads up a week before".

I don't watch TV, the Mrs. uses netflix and I think the kids do, too. When the two together were <$20 a month, it was nice because neither has great coverage of past movies, but sometimes one did and the other didn't. Now, I think we're just wasting money on prime.

I could do without netflix, too.

 

[D_W]

$10 per l month canada

not sure if this link works, but it looks like even harvey industries (bridge city) isn't immune from having tools copied:

BC block plane copy

 

[mikej460]

£95 pa (£7.91 pm) in the UK. When I first joined up it was £72 pa

 

[D_W]

i checked - it's $139 a year here now. As mentioned, it seems to be the case that there's lots of "this is prime, but it's 4 day shipping instead of two" that started and got much worse during covid. "we have reprioritized your shipping so that we can get essential items delivered".

I figured that they'd realize they could ride that forever - people will complain, but they have no other real online peers here to compete.

Was $79 the first year we got prime.

There are far more warehouses now, too, though, so the number of 1 day items is greatly increased - and I can't think of any of them that I needed right away. If I have needed something quickly, it's not a 1 day item.

 

[Jarno]

10$ a month certainly is something to think about, so I'll certainly reconsider when it comes to that in NL, but at 3 EUR, I am not complaining.

Saw that chinese Bridge City clone as well, I think it still is very expensive, but that is what you get from designing and producing a product in China (and exactly the reason why Philips shaverheads are ONLY produced in the Netherlands), it will get copied, because there is margin there.
The original is expensive, and cheap to reproduce, lots of margin. Bailey pattern planes are a cheaper, are also not very expensive to make (even properly), but have a higher associated logistics cost (heavier), less margin.

Maybe that is the reason why (the logistics aspect), the Woodriver planes are pretty expensive, even through aliexpress (might also be pricing agreements). 240USD for a bedrock style 5, which similar to what that same plane would cost at a dutch shop. (but OK, that certainly does not look like it is made cheaply, looks to be really high quality, all the ground surfaces look really good)

 

[D_W]

10$ a month certainly is something to think about, so I'll certainly reconsider when it comes to that in NL, but at 3 EUR, I am not complaining.

Saw that chinese Bridge City clone as well, I think it still is very expensive, but that is what you get from designing and producing a product in China (and exactly the reason why Philips shaverheads are ONLY produced in the Netherlands), it will get copied, because there is margin there.
The original is expensive, and cheap to reproduce, lots of margin. Bailey pattern planes are a cheaper, are also not very expensive to make (even properly), but have a higher associated logistics cost (heavier), less margin.

Maybe that is the reason why (the logistics aspect), the Woodriver planes are pretty expensive, even through aliexpress (might also be pricing agreements). 240USD for a bedrock style 5, which similar to what that same plane would cost at a dutch shop. (but OK, that certainly does not look like it is made cheaply, looks to be really high quality, all the ground surfaces look really good)

I think something like a shaver head is so dependent on quality - the correct hardening of the blades - accurately, and the correct finishing of them, that if you're going to sell an expensive model, it will become immediately apparent if it doesn't last.

As far as the clone router plane, I am fairly sure - just my opinion - but a fairly sure one - that when a product is made to clone a known western product and then sold for a relatively high cost here (wood river, luban in other countries, hongdui knockoffs of LV bench top holddown gadgets..) the alibaba listings are set so that you won't find the actual price without contacting the maker and confirming you'd be selling in a non-competing territory.

Here's an example of where things don't make sense - the alibaba listing for a hongdui holdfast knocking off an LV product is something like $50 per, but on the aliexpress side (where you can buy one individually) the same thing is actually cheaper. This is backwards from the typical thing where the aliexpress item my be double or quadruple the cost of something bought in groups of 500.

In the case of the router plane being listed on aliexpress for $215, higher than the price of a canada-made LV, same thing - if you'll buy it, they'll let you, but I don't think - especially on the english language listings - that they're about to let you immediately go find the K-M plane for cheaper than K-M and it's probably part of the agreement.

The whole thing is still in exceptionally poor taste to me - I didn't think there was much genuine about K-M's background other than fast clear speech, test joints and high quality video production, but he's just a copying crook in my opinion, now.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

K-M will have his fanbois. He’ll do a couple of woodworking shows, then be able to sell common card scrapers with long sides ground in a curve for $24.99 USD.

LV is an innovator and their tools are still fairly competitive in price. Woodpecker also produces a few unique and interesting tools (not all, though).

I will not condemn the off shore manufacturing, as we are a global economy (I manufacture and ship to China). I will condemn those companies that only copy without improving.