Is there a market for infill plane kits? Upd8 - setback No1

[Aled Dafis]

Further to some comments posted following my dovetailed shoulder plane build, I've been thinking long and hard about putting a few kits together for you guys to have a go at making them yourselves.

I'm currently only considering the idea, but would welcome any comments, be they positive or otherwise as to whether you believe that there's a potential market out there. I know that similar ventures have failed in the past, so I'm a little wary as to whether there's a market at all.

The planes I've made so far are a small smoother and the shoulder plane.

I also plan to make a full sized smoother in the near future, loosely based on a Norris 13 (but probably without the adjuster), and would also consider offering that as a kit; that is if my build turns out OK in the first place. In the longer term, I'd also like to put together a full size shoulder plane.

Cheers

Aled

 

[Mr Ed]

An interesting idea Aled. I'd potentially be up for having a go at one.

I don't think its an easy sector though; Legacy planeworks in the US had a nice shoulder plane kit and they couldn't make a go of it commercially. With the market there is out there it makes you wonder.

http://legacyplanes.com/

I know Ron Brese does kits as well, don't know what percentage of his business they account for though.

Best of luck if you decide to give it a go

Cheers, Ed

 

[xraymtb]

In some ways, I like the idea of a kit - at the same time, I can't help but think if I have the skills to do some of the work, then why not do it all?

I would need more specifics - I presume the dovetails would be cut but not fitted together and peened?

As an intro to making infill planes it may be a good thing but I don't personally think there would be a large enough market to really make a go of it.

 

[Aled Dafis]

Thanks for your comments guys. I only intend to run the venture as a hobby, so my overheads would be less than if I were to make it my sole income provider. In reality, if things don't work out, then I won't loose out that much.

Mike,

That's pretty much what I had in mind, cutting the dovetails, but letting you do the peining. What about heat treating the iron? Would you be comfortable having a go at that? It's not brain surgery, but may be outside some people's comfort zone.

The smoother I have planned, uses the Holtey/Ron Brese method of screwing the sole to the sides, as opposed to dovetailing, thus making the assembly even more straightforward.

The Legacy kits look nice, it's a shame they couldn't make it work. I was quite tempted initially, but decided that I had the skills, and would have a go myself.

Cheers

Aled

P.S. It's 66% in favour at the mo, so it looks promising. However, the sample size is pretty small, so I'll not read too much into it.

 

[pedder]

Hi Aled,

it was me who voted no.

Not because I don't like your plan what I do.

Not because there is no market for Infills in general. Ron Breese and Gerd Fritsche sell infill kits.

But I think there is no market for infill shoulder plane kits. There are many tutorials in the fora. It seems to be easy to make your own plane from stock.

If you had asked if there is a market for infill shoulder planes, I'd voted yes. One of the big players sells them. If you could do better (or cheaper) there would be a market.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[xraymtb]

Aled,

I would imagine heat treated the iron to be outside the comfort zone of the type of buyer you would be looking for.

Personally, if I had the equipment, skills and courage to heat treat my own irons, I would probably want to have a go at the whole thing, start to finish.

I'm not saying the idea is a complete non-starter - as you have said this is a hobby, and if you are not relying on these kits to make any serious money then why not have a go?

For me, I have very little metal work skills other than high school screw driver making!! If I was to buy a kit now, with my limited experience and tools, I would expect the sides/sole cut to size and dovetailed, the iron to be 'ready to use' (barring a quick sharpening), and the hardware required for anything else to be included (i.e. any adjusters or knobs for lever caps and the crosspin. This would leave me to do the fitting and peening, create the hardwood infill and put it all together - well within my comfort zone.

For those with more metal experience however, they may be comfortable doing more with the iron and the brass sides, but not as comfortable to work the hardwoods and shape the infill.

From the looks of the poll, there may be a market however so you can take my NO as a YES!!

 

[SammyQ]

Colour me interested in a shoulder plane kit.

Sam

 

[beech1948]

The Old Tool Shop in Leics ( I've forgotten the chaps name...Somebody Ray Iles) has a complete infill smoother based on a Norris for sale ready built for £400 ish I think...perhaps indicates that there might be a market.

The real problem is to persuade enough folks that there is real monetary value in the bits bthat make up the kit.

regards
Alan

 

[Mr Ed]

Personally I think you would need to supply a finished blade, including heat treatment done. I would consider doing a kit, but I wouldn't want to start messing about with heat treatment.

Cheers, Ed

 

[Anonymous]

I think there might be a very small market and the price will have to be pretty low to capture a slice of that market.

If i were voting, it would be no unless you just want to sell the occasional kit. Your planes are beautiful though.

But then, I don't see any need for infills these days except as expensive toys (I have used 3 infilis from a brand new one to old Norris smoother and none were any better in use than a LN or LV)

 

[Paul Chapman]

I think the market would be very limited and you would have to charge quite a lot to make a profit.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

I think there might be a very small market and the price will have to be pretty low to capture a slice of that market.

If i were voting, it would be no unless you just want to sell the occasional kit. Your planes are beautiful though.

But then, I don't see any need for infills these days except as expensive toys (I have used 3 infilis from a brand new one to old Norris smoother and none were any better in use than a LN or LV)

I'm in agreement here with Tony. I've used S&S infills and I have a Norris A1 panel plane. Whilst very pleasant to look and to use, they in no way perform any better than my LV/LN planes or my Record Calvert-Stevens BD smoother - Rob

 

[TrimTheKing]

If the price was right I would be willing to take one, just for the fun of doing it, and giving me the confidence to go further and have a bash at doing my own from scratch.

Cheers

Mark

 

[cambournepete]

If the price was right I'd have a go.

I don't do any metalwork, so a kit with all the meatl parts ready cut and drilled and heat treated or whatever would be ideal.

I was thinking of getting a kit from Shepherd Tool in the US, but never found the time and now they're no more...

 

[Woody Alan]

was thinking of getting a kit from Shepherd Tool in the US, but never found the time and now they're no more

Well consider yourself lucky, because they were pretty rubbish, speaking as an idiot who bought a couple, and don't let anyone tell you different I had endless trouble with missing parts, parts that didn't fit, non delivery etc etcs.

Alan

 

[Aled Dafis]

Thanks again for your comments guys.

I totally agree that the likes of LN, LV and of course Clifton, all perform to a very high standard, but I must add that using infill planes gives a little more. I'm not talking actual planing performance here - although I firmly believe that infills can be made to perform at least as well as their production line counterparts - but infills also make you feel a little better inside, and especially so if you're using a tool that you've made yourself.

I also believe that using a tool that works superbly, and that you're proud of, can elevate the standard of your work to another level. So, in which case, infill planes make perfect sense, they work well, they look good, they make you feel good, and can even spur you on to produce even better work.

Sorry if this sounds like some sort of sales pitch, it's not intended as that at all, I have LV, LN and Clifton tools, and they also have a similar effect on me. I guess that I just like nice tools. :lol: (and that I'm a little sad )

For the brave guys that have expressed some interest in the kits, thank you very much. I'm doing some research on the costing at the moment, and should have something a little firmer in mind by next weekend.

Cheers

Aled

 

[TrimTheKing]

Excellent, bring it on. Maybe we can have a little competition to see who can best 'pimp' one of your kits Aled

Cheers

Mark

 

[Benchwayze]

I voted 'No' too.

Mainly because if I was considering a kit, I would have to go for Ron Brese. He seems to have that market well sewn-up. I couldn't afford a Karl Holtey of any type!

In the UK I think Philly is high on the 'makers' list, and what I might pay for a kit, would probably get me a ready-made 'Philly'. (I can't swear to this of course!) There's also a fellow somewhere in the Leics/Northants area whom I read about in Good Woodworking. I'd have to dig it out, but the stuff he was doing looked good.

Aled, please don't let me deter you from trying, but I believe in something you said. If you have the skills, make it yourself!

Best o'luck with it.

 

[bugbear]

An interesting idea Aled. I'd potentially be up for having a go at one.

I don't think its an easy sector though; Legacy planeworks in the US had a nice shoulder plane kit and they couldn't make a go of it commercially. With the market there is out there it makes you wonder.

Don't forget the sad fate of shephard tools.

BugBear

 

[Mikey R]

I really like the idea of making my own infill plane, Ive been thinking about how I would go about it with the minimum of metal working tools. It would be tricky though without a permanent workspace.

If I was looking for a new plane, I would definitely consider a kit or a completed plane - so I voted yes, if I had the budget!

I do agree a kit of parts would be competing with a completed production Stanley type plane, so it may need need to be priced similar to something like a new Clifton.


What would be interesting is a kit of just the tricky parts - the Norris style adjuster, a polished brass lever cap, iron and breaker, those kinds of things.