Is it something I'm doing???

[undergroundhunter]

Hi guys n Gals

Not sure if its something I'm doing but I bought a new saw file from Matthew @ Workshop Heaven to sharpen my new (old) tenon saw. So I'm filing away and then notice the end of the file is...... well I'm not sure how to describe it (see pics). My question all all you knowledgeable people is is it something I've done or possibly a faulty file??????

 

[pedder]

Hi

this is hard to tell without seeing or better filing the saw. Some saw blades are very hard and kills files after e few strokes. And some files are too brittle. Hard to tell, wich fault it is.

If it is the blade (you'll know after you've used files of another brand) I bin the blade or aneal it in the oven until it's blue.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[undergroundhunter]

If it is the blade (you'll know after you've used files of another brand) I bin the blade or aneal it in the oven until it's blue.

Thanks for the reply Pedder

I assume you mean the saw blade?? This may be a dumb question but it's brass backed will this not damage the brass? If it helps the diagnosis its a Tyzac and sons 120 see the link below. Is the file scrap or can I still use it?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300833265053?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

[pedder]

I only have filed a few Tyzacks in my llife, but none of them was so hard, that it hurt a file. Call Matthew, I think the file ist not 100%. Wich brand is it, Btw?

Cheers
Pedder

 

[Cheshirechappie]

As far as I can tell from the photos, the file is OK. Not all files have the teeth cut right to the tip. In the case of a sawfile, most users tend to hold the file with both hands - with the right hand by a wooden handle on the file's tang, and between finger and thumb with the left hand at the tip end (t'other way about if you're left-handed, of course). Thus, the tip never does any work, so there's no point putting teeth on it.

I've just checked my sawfiles, and they all have the teeth ending about 1/2" from the tip.

Edit to add - try filing with very slow passes. Many people use files far too fast, especially as the workpiece is a relatively hard steel. If you can make a 6" file take almost a full second to make a pass, that's about the right sort of speed. It should cut well at that speed. If it doesn't, either the file is too soft or too brittle (more likely), or the saw is over-hardened (less likely - especially for a mid to late 20th century saw, when heat treatment quality was more consistent than during the Victorian era).

 

[Harbo]

Are you asking about the missing gimps on the file edge?
Could be damage during transit?

Rod

 

[undergroundhunter]

No not the missing bit, its hard to tell from the pics but there is "clumped up teeth" running from where the teeth start you can see it best on the 1st pic looks like a wavy line. I only took light passes its not as if I was trying recut the teeth just touch them up.

Its a Bahco File Pedder with a really nice walnut handle see below link

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/4-187-05-2-0_Bahco_X_Slim_Saw_File_125mm_with_handle.html

thanks for your replies guys.

Just seen your edit Cheshirechappie.

Before I started I watched Matthews video on saw sharpening and tried to copy his method so I wasn't rushing if anything I was probably going a bit slow after re-watching Matthews exellent video

 

[CHJ]

Would not have expected a saw blade soft enough to take a re-set to be hard enough to shatter the file corners as seen there, does look like the file is a little too brittle.
Can you check the saw teeth for malleability on an end tooth?

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The flanks of the file do most of the work, and look to be in decent fettle, so I think I'd be tempted to take a 'suck it and see' approach. If the file jumps or jams, or skates over the job without cutting, there's something amiss. If it doesn't, and gives a decent result, then it's in good enough order, despite it's slightly chewed appearance at the corners.

 

[MickCheese]

Contact Matthew and ask him.

If its faulty I'm sure he will tell you.

Mick

 

[AndyT]

I would not want to jump to conclusions especially as you say this is a Bahco file but you might be interested to read Paul Sellers' recent blog post on how other file makers have dropped the quality of their products - http://paulsellers.com/2013/01/nicholson-saw-files-still-no-good.

 

[pip1954]

hi completely normal nothing wrong seen loads like as has been said use two hands
pip

 

[undergroundhunter]

I did use 2 hands.

I will email Matthew when I get home later.

thanks guys

 

[pedder]

Guys,

this is not about the blank part of the file but the crumbled edge.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[bugbear]

datapoint: I have several Tyzack saws, never seen anything like this.

I've used old car boot files, and Vallorbes from Axminster.

BugBear

 

[Sheffield Tony]

This might be a silly question, but is the saw clamped firmly, and close, in a suitable vice so that the file cuts smoothly and relatively quietly, with little no vibration/shrieking noises ?

 

[undergroundhunter]

This might be a silly question, but is the saw clamped firmly, and close, in a suitable vice so that the file cuts smoothly and relatively quietly, with little no vibration/shrieking noises ?

Yes it was between 2 pieces of sapele in the vice and clamps at both ends just to make sure it couldn't move.

 

[Dovetaildave]

Hi,

I've used three different brands of files.
Sharpened my Hand saws and Tenon saws at school and home.

The first photo shows the wave well enough to understand the situation.
I've never seen a file with anything wavy on them, before or after use.

Matthew will know what to do................always does :wink:

Can always keep it for use on your least cherished saw.

 

[matthewwh]

Got the files back and I've had a look at them with the Bahco rep.

The first inch or so, where the section of the steel is narrower, seems to be too hard while the rest of the file is completely normal. We have had the odd one or two in the past that were over hard but that was right the way through.

In terms of hardening they aim to take them to the absolute limit of what the steel is capable of. There will always be a distribution of results, the better the process control the narrower the distribution. Consequently we put up with having to replace an over hardened file every now and again. Better that than have them try to 'solve' the problem from a manufacturing point of view by tempering all of them a little bit softer.

This is the first time I have encountered such a clear example of the transition from tough to brittle within the same tool. I think I'll hang on to them as an example of the brinkmanship involved in making really good files.

 

[AndyT]

Thanks for that Matthew. It's reassuring to know that at least one company is still making proper files, not file-shaped objects.