Is it possible to maintain a camber on the jack plane indefinitely

[tibi]

Jacob doesn't really have any information for you unless you're looking for a guy who worked back and forth from a shop where most of the stuff was cut with a slider and shaper. I had to go back pretty far to find him demonstrating something, and it was cutting half blinds. It didn't look like he'd done it before.

But the answer with a jack is simple - grind the jack with curvature and then draw and push the whole iron with rotation. while you're doing it and then work the tip of the tool with a finer stone to remove the burr (there's no good reason, even on a jack, to tear off a large burr - actually there's never any good reason to remove a burr with anything other than a fine stone or a strop that will hone most of it off and not tear it off).

Once you get a jack set up, it's good for a solid half hour of planing or so in hardwoods (and if working by hand, you absolutely do as much with it as you can to get close to a mark). If grinding is needed to push back the bevel more than once per very large furniture project, it would be unusual.

Generally want an iron that's on the moderate hardness side and not super hard, either - sharpening takes about a minute.

I used 1200 diamond stone to remove the burr, if working on a lower grit or equal stone, then I removed the burr on Agate stone or strop when using them for the bevel part as well. I may try to use Agate or Strop only and not use 1200 stone for removing burr when working the bevel on the lower grit stones.

If I understand it correctly, shall I pull and rotate the iron sideways as Jacob suggested or you describe a different technique? Sometimes when I sharpen I get burr on the sides but no burr in the middle, when sharpening in front to back and back to front motion. Then I apply more pressure in the middle to get a burr there (and that is maybe why I am loosing camber).

I can almost get finished surface with the jack. I use a srub plane only to remove some debris from the wood, if there is any and then I switch to jack. I work in sections, front to back, if I work a long board without cross grain planing. It is maybe more work, but I do not have to deal with deep tearout that I would get from scrub plane or cross grain planing. I try to remove as little material as possible to get the face flat.

 

[tibi]

You won't do any more honing with the grinder than without, by the way, and it may end up being less. You'll just complete the job more or less and have better clearance. It's exceedingly rare with any tool that you'd grind off the honed edge -there's probably something, but I can't actually think of anything short of actually manufacturing the chisel.

I try to get as close to edge as possible, without actually burning it off. But my grinding technique is different. I just go one pass with light pressure and then let the air from the grinder cool the blade for a few seconds. No water and no continuous grinding from side to side. I occasionally burn a corner, if I am not careful, but no burnt edges so far. I was just afraid that if I grind a bigger camber twice a week, I would diminish the size of the iron very soon.

 

[D_W]

the motion I'm describing isn't side sharpening or straight in, it's between. You can do anything that works. I'm not a huge fan of side sharpening because it's not as natural to sharpen evenly, just as putting the blade parallel to the stone and lifting wouldn't be. Something about halfway in between those making sure that the second stone is maintaining geometry edge to edge is the way to go. It doesn't really matter if the corners are maintained as they probably won't be in the cut, but if you keep them in the cut motion, it'll just keep things more consistent.

I've never had to adjust the camber on a jack plane, and generally use one jack plane most of the time despite having several of them. I have two set - one with a tight radius and one a little less tight (but most people who are setting up a batch of smoothers would think it's drastic camber) - the drastic one set really coarsely is something I just generally don't find a use for - it's less efficient to use it - much like using a scrub plane for no reason.

 

[Jameshow]

Jacob doesn't really have any information for you unless you're looking for a guy who worked back and forth from a shop where most of the stuff was cut with a slider and shaper. I had to go back pretty far to find him demonstrating something, and it was cutting half blinds. It didn't look like he'd done it before.

But the answer with a jack is simple - grind the jack with curvature and then draw and push the whole iron with rotation. while you're doing it and then work the tip of the tool with a finer stone to remove the burr (there's no good reason, even on a jack, to tear off a large burr - actually there's never any good reason to remove a burr with anything other than a fine stone or a strop that will hone most of it off and not tear it off).

Once you get a jack set up, it's good for a solid half hour of planing or so in hardwoods (and if working by hand, you absolutely do as much with it as you can to get close to a mark). If grinding is needed to push back the bevel more than once per very large furniture project, it would be unusual.

Generally want an iron that's on the moderate hardness side and not super hard, either - sharpening takes about a minute. Grind from time to time to keep the bevel from getting fat or the honed area from getting large, maintain the actual edge geometry with a middle stone and then work the tip of the tool with a fine stone. It becomes hard to maintain even work with a full bevel if you're not grinding the bulk behind the edge of shallower, and it's not really practical to try to do anything with the finisher other than finishing.

I was a bit surprised last week to see that Nichoslon prescribes the same thing (Grinding occasionally, not every sharpening), but I've not read much of nicholson's stuff before and the person who referred me to it insists that things only be sharpened with a flat (not sloppy sellars type, but flat bevel progressed through a set of stones at each interval. I think that's more of a carver's thing (and the person who mentioned that has tended toward carving for income over time).

That reminds me of a American theological writer who wrote...."Karl Barth on one of his better days....."

 

[Jacob]

Interesting. Have you done 21,000 odd posts as "Jacob" or does that include previous posts from the "Mr Grimsdale" and other non-de-plume eras?

Can't remember, so many other identities! This group started as a Yahoo message board years ago and went through various other transformations, not to mention temporary exclusions.

I must try that. I find said slim "friend" drives me bonkers.

Cheers, Vann.

No comment!

 

[D_W]

I must try that. I find said slim "friend" drives me bonkers.
Cheers, Vann.

People hate someone with experience when they're either making it up as they go along (this not being you) or they really just wanted to suppose something as if they're watching roy underhill on TV, and they don't actually want to do it or have expectations of themselves.

There aren't many people on hand tool forum sections who actually want to make much with hand tools - I've learned this. They want to have hand tools and play with them here and there and then set them aside. Which is too bad, because for certain things they're pleasant, certain things they're more capable or more freeing (like making one off guitars where you don't want router templates to cut things to size) and sometimes both.

 

[Jacob]

I try to get as close to edge as possible, without actually burning it off. But my grinding technique is different. I just go one pass with light pressure and then let the air from the grinder cool the blade for a few seconds. No water and no continuous grinding from side to side. I occasionally burn a corner, if I am not careful, but no burnt edges so far. I was just afraid that if I grind a bigger camber twice a week, I would diminish the size of the iron very soon.

I've more or less stopped using a grinder. Once you've got the edge how you want it you can keep it that way by doing a little and often freehand just to freshen it up.
It's like knife sharpening - they never need anything drastic like grinding if you just use a steel, a little and often.

If I do grind I use a 12" sanding disc/table on my lathe - fast, cool, controllable.

 

[D_W]

I guess if we're going to go on "history", I'm out of bounds for pushing hand tool more toward making things of note and less toward playing, because there hasn't been a whole lot of that on the internet. There's been more multi tens of thousands of posts from "pros" who never really did much hand tooling and some enthusiastic information curators who also don't do or make a whole lot, but love to discuss.

 

[D_W]

I've more or less stopped using a grinder. Once you've got the edge how you want it you can keep it that way by doing a little and often just to freshen it up.
If I do grind I use a 12" sanding disc/table on my lathe - fast, cool, controllable

If the disc isn't at low speed, the idea that it's cool grinding is false. If it's at low speed, it's probably not very safe - to understand why that would be, try grinding freehand with no jig on a tormek.

 

[John Brown]

What a condescending and rude thing to say.

You should see the other guy.

 

[Jacob]

......You give advice how things were made in a proper British woodworking way, maybe more like Paul Sellers, if that comparison would not insult you in any way. .....

No not at all!
I like his no nonsense practical approach, ordinary tools, no gadgets, no would-be-guru claims of occult knowledge, a breath of fresh air really. I don't follow him that closely - he does seem to produce a lot of text and videos, but it's nearly always interesting and very practical.
PS his design work is nothing to write home about, but well made!

 

[D_W]

You should see the other guy.

Raffo is probably the only person on any forum who has seen me in person.