I'm in the wrong job

[MikeJhn]

Mike, uk, new rules, soak away must be 10 Meters from a water course and 50 Meters from
your water source.

When did these new rules come into effect, as far as I know part H of the Building Regulations have not been altered since 2015.

Soak away yes, but not a micro station or approved filter, and only if your water source is potable water i.e. a well, not your water main into the property, please see clause 1.27 on page 31 below.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80cf9ded915d74e33fc8ae/BR_PDF_AD_H_2015.pdf

 

[sawdust1]

2020 !
Discharge from a klargester or treatment tank can go into a watercourse !
Yes, does not apply if your on mains !

 

[highwood122]

It's not the hourly rate, it's the years it takes to learn how to do jobs professionally. For some professions or trades, that can be thousands of hours, training costs, professional body fees, liability insurance and possibly significant investment in vehicles and equipment. If the price is more than people think is reasonable they are always at liberty to do it themselves or go without.

one learns a trade because you will allways be in employment not to exploit everybody who is vulnerable. i personally would ask the airial fitter to justify cost or tell him to take it down again and sod off

 

[Max Power]

one learns a trade because you will allways be in employment not to exploit everybody who is vulnerable. i personally would ask the airial fitter to justify cost or tell him to take it down again and sod off

One wouldn't class arial fitting as a trade, neither would one clamber around on a roof for the profit from a ￡300 arial fit, which is likely to be substantially less than said ￡300.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Personal experience - came home from a winter break to find ariel hanging by the coaxial cable from the chimney.

Looked on-line for someone local to come and sort it out. Convincing advert appeared and they came round. £400 mate.

That seems a bit much for 30 minutes work and £25 of new ariel. Ok mate - call head office and see what they say. £250 +VAT.

To be fair the ariel was replaced together with the signal amplifier in the loft which was seriously overheating.

My estimate of the bill - parts £50, labour £200, VAT £50. An exploitative rip off but realistically I was (a) not going up to the roof to do the job myself, (b) a few days before Xmas with grandchildren arriving expecting a working TV.

Just one of life's annoying experiences - but occasionally the reverse happens. Overgrown sweet chestnut in front garden blocking light and close to damaging roof. Get quotes for a decent trim - £4-600. Hear a guy working in neighbours garden, ask for quote, £175, done that day.

A good find - honest, works hard, will be back in the spring to cut down some leylandii and do base for new shed.

 

[MikeJhn]

2020 !
Discharge from a klargester or treatment tank can go into a watercourse !
Yes, does not apply if your on mains !

Why the 2020!

Only if it has gone through a filter bed first, please do read Part H of the building regulations, Klargester's are just settlement tanks, a "treatment tank" if you mean something like a Biorock tank that is a filter bed and my first sentence stands, but would be difficult to arrange as the discharge from most filter tanks are approximately two meters under the inlet, unless your treatment tank is on a hill or pumped, to discharge into a watercourse needs EA approval on the particulate content of the discharge.

 

[Fergie 307]

Had a chap, last week, put a camera down our septic tank to soak away pipe, 1/4 hour tops, £180 was the total !
Due to new regulations, need to replace a perfectly good working system for one that is compliant before selling,
only £13,000 !

You need to check with EA before spending any money. Recently sold my dad's old cottage with septic tank. No idea when it was installed, but certainly prior to 1960, the cottage itself was late 18th century. Simple system with outlet to a drainage field.

Many companies will tell you you need to replace such a system to comply with new regs. But this is wrong as the regs are not retrospective.

I had it emptied, then a full survey, including camera inspection, carried out by Dyno Rod. They produced a report confirming that the system was in perfect working order.

Any system installed prior to I think 2014 is permitted to discharge a certain volume. There is a calculator on the EA site so you can work out the discharge rate of your system. As long as it is within the specified limits you do not have to change it at all.

The engineers report from Dyno Rod, and a letter from EA, confirming that this was compliant settled the issue. You should also have a discharge permit from the EA, these were issued when the first of the main changes came in, as I say I think around 2014. Whoever was the owner of the property at the time should have got one of these.

Both my solicitor and the people at the EA told me that there has been a lot of scare mongering around this, with numerous articles on the net implying that you have to rip out any old system and replace it prior to I think 2021. This is nonsense, and most of these articles come back to companies manufacturing or installing waste treatment plants.

Interestingly the guys from Dyno Rod had made exactly the same observation, lots of companies telling you that you must have a new system or be prosecuted. Not true, although they used rather earthier language to describe these people.

If you install a NEW system, it has to comply. Anything that was already installed before I think 2014, does not. You can check all the dates and other information on the EA site. If your contractor is telling you that you have to have a new system to comply with the law chances are they are trying to rip you off.

 

[Adam W.]

It's not the hourly rate, it's the years it takes to learn how to do jobs professionally. For some professions or trades, that can be thousands of hours, training costs, professional body fees, liability insurance and possibly significant investment in vehicles and equipment. If the price is more than people think is reasonable they are always at liberty to do it themselves or go without.

Sounds about right.

Too much griping and whining going on about getting someone to do the job which people are not prepared/equipped/qualified/skilled/experienced* to do themselves.

*delete as appropriate.

 

[worn thumbs]

One wouldn't class arial fitting as a trade, neither would one clamber around on a roof for the profit from a ￡300 arial fit, which is likely to be substantially less than said ￡300.

I wouldn't be too disparaging about aerial installation as it can cover quite a lot of things.It really isn't too difficult to attach an aerial to a wall or chimney and point it in the general direction of a signal.It gets a bit more complicated if one has to distribute the signal around a hotel or other building with multiple TV sets.It gets another level more difficult if the installation is a motorised satellite dish that serves several rooms.In a way it resembles woodwork as nailing crates together and creating furniture are both variations on a theme.

 

[MikeJhn]

You need to check with EA before spending any money. Recently sold my dad's old cottage with septic tank. No idea when it was installed, but certainly prior to 1960, the cottage itself was late 18th century. Simple system with outlet to a drainage field.

Many companies will tell you you need to replace such a system to comply with new regs. But this is wrong as the regs are not retrospective.

I had it emptied, then a full survey, including camera inspection, carried out by Dyno Rod. They produced a report confirming that the system was in perfect working order.

Any system installed prior to I think 2014 is permitted to discharge a certain volume. There is a calculator on the EA site so you can work out the discharge rate of your system. As long as it is within the specified limits you do not have to change it at all.

The engineers report from Dyno Rod, and a letter from EA, confirming that this was compliant settled the issue. You should also have a discharge permit from the EA, these were issued when the first of the main changes came in, as I say I think around 2014. Whoever was the owner of the property at the time should have got one of these.

Both my solicitor and the people at the EA told me that there has been a lot of scare mongering around this, with numerous articles on the net implying that you have to rip out any old system and replace it prior to I think 2021. This is nonsense, and most of these articles come back to companies manufacturing or installing waste treatment plants.

Interestingly the guys from Dyno Rod had made exactly the same observation, lots of companies telling you that you must have a new system or be prosecuted. Not true, although they used rather earthier language to describe these people.

If you install a NEW system, it has to comply. Anything that was already installed before I think 2014, does not. You can check all the dates and other information on the EA site. If your contractor is telling you that you have to have a new system to comply with the law chances are they are trying to rip you off.

Good post and information, I think the date cut off though is 2015 when section H of the building regulations where updated, luckily we are not in the EU any more as they have a ruling that on sale a properties drainage systems have to brought up to current regulations by the buyer within a year, certainly that applies in Germany and France, not sure about the rest of the EU, but the sale must have a diagnostic report on the condition on quite a few areas, one being drainage.

 

[Fergie 307]

Good post and information, I think the date cut off though is 2015 when section H of the building regulations where updated, luckily we are not in the EU any more as they have a ruling that on sale a properties drainage systems have to brought up to current regulations by the buyer within a year, certainly that applies in Germany and France, not sure about the rest of the EU, but the sale must have a diagnostic report on the condition on quite a few areas, one being drainage.

You are probably right about the date. I don't still have any of the documentation as it was all forwarded to the buyer.
I had never had anything to do with septic tanks, so started from a position of total ignorance. I found the EA very helpful, and everything you need can be found on their website.
The buyers solicitor was originally suggesting the whole thing would have to be replaced to meet the new rules, fortunately their surveyor knew his stuff and said that, subject to a full examination to confirm that everything was in good shape, the system was perfectly acceptable, and had ample capacity. He had pulled the various covers and was satisfied that it was working as it should. He just wanted a full exam to ensure that the tank and pipework were in good condition, hence the full report by Dyno Rod. I think it cost around £300.
Very interesting talking to the contractor that came to empty it. He said that the common problems they see are that people empty them far to often. As he said, every time you empty it you are getting rid of most of the bacteria that digest the waste. His estimate was that if it is working correctly, and the correct size for the number of people using it, it should only need emptying maybe every five years or so, and could be a lot longer. Dad's had only been emptied three times in over 20 years.
Another issue is the tendency of people nowadays to use far too much bleach, and anti bacterial cleaners. These, If used to excess, will kill the bacteria in the tank, then you will soon know about it because of the smell!
And finally the dreaded wipes. As he said, these shouldn't be going down the toilet anyway, but everyone does it. If you have a tank it is vital to use bio degradable ones. The normal ones are basically plastic, and cannot be digested by the bacteria in the tank. They can cause all sorts of problems. All the experts said basically the same thing. If a septic tank system is unhappy it will let you know by the smell. If it is working correctly there will be no smell, and it's best left alone.

 

[MikeJhn]

Had a septic tank in my house in Kent for over forty years, emptied once, house in France (now sold) only emptied once in twelve years and that was prior to the sale that the buyer insisted upon, tried to reason with them as you say, but most people are far too used to cess pits, not septic tanks with filter beds, one thing I would disagree with, septic tanks only smell if they are not sealed or vented correctly, not because they are not working at optimum efficiency, the action of a septic tank is anaerobic i.e. without oxygen, but the gases (mostly methane) above the scum line need to be vented and always smell, therefore the need to vent away from buildings.

 

[HOJ]

34 years here, only emptied once, on the back of it getting flooded by a burst water main.

 

[Samkilby]

Personal experience - came home from a winter break to find ariel hanging by the coaxial cable from the chimney.

Looked on-line for someone local to come and sort it out. Convincing advert appeared and they came round. £400 mate.

That seems a bit much for 30 minutes work and £25 of new ariel. Ok mate - call head office and see what they say. £250 +VAT.

To be fair the ariel was replaced together with the signal amplifier in the loft which was seriously overheating.

My estimate of the bill - parts £50, labour £200, VAT £50. An exploitative rip off but realistically I was (a) not going up to the roof to do the job myself, (b) a few days before Xmas with grandchildren arriving expecting a working TV.

Just one of life's annoying experiences - but occasionally the reverse happens. Overgrown sweet chestnut in front garden blocking light and close to damaging roof. Get quotes for a decent trim - £4-600. Hear a guy working in neighbours garden, ask for quote, £175, done that day.

A good find - honest, works hard, will be back in the spring to cut down some leylandii and do base for new shed.

As you say, the very fact that they even have a head office needs paying for somewhere.
There are a lot of hidden costs and overheads in what you have assumed is labour, for example -
Where is the van rental, van insurance, fuel, site visit time to ***** costs, pli insurance, admin costs, website costs, membership of trade organisations/checkatrade, accountancy costs, paying for sick leave and holidays, employers ni contributions, property maintenance, rental and business rate contributions, paying someone to attend training, paying for the training, investment in tools and equipment and their maintenance. I’m sure I’ve missed some !

So is it a rip off ? Well probably not. But is there someone local who would do it cheaper, who doesn’t have such large overheads ? Almost definitely yes.

 

[Kayen]

What do people think of this

after the recent winds a slight leak appeared in out upstairs hall..
at a company i work for ( as self employed) a lady said he hubby was a roofer and he wasnt busy
i sent him a pic of the hole around a light pipe on the roof ( drone shot)
he said yes i 'll have to strip back the roof and reflash it and new tiles etc etc.
£250
i said yes ok
about 4 days later he came....himself and lad to hold ladder in 25 mins hed done
asking for £250 with no reciept

I'm in the wrong job

I wouldn't be happy paying that, but then I wouldn't accept a quote from a photo.

I always want to meet who works on my house before trusting them with the job.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

As you say, the very fact that they even have a head office needs paying for somewhere.
There are a lot of hidden costs and overheads in what you have assumed is labour, for example -
Where is the van rental, van insurance, fuel, site visit time to ***** costs, pli insurance, admin costs, website costs, membership of trade organisations/checkatrade, accountancy costs, paying for sick leave and holidays, employers ni contributions, property maintenance, rental and business rate contributions, paying someone to attend training, paying for the training, investment in tools and equipment and their maintenance. I’m sure I’ve missed some !

So is it a rip off ? Well probably not. But is there someone local who would do it cheaper, who doesn’t have such large overheads ? Almost definitely yes.

I agree with you comments re overheads - yet it was advertised as a local company.

The "head office" may even have been his wife/partner - a wheeze designed to ensure I could not put the gentleman with ladder standing in front of me under any pressure, but talk to someone who could have been 200 miles distant (or the next street).

Even at the "inflated" price I told him to go ahead - there comes a point where expending time and effort to save £50 just is not worth it. The existing ariel and amplifier were at least 25-30 years old so easily rationalised at £10 pa!

 

[TomGW]

On the septic tank comments - my parents built a new house with a block built septic tank and herring bone drainage system. We moved in during February 1971 and the system has never been emptied or needed any attention since then. Before the concrete slab lids were put in place a 'ripe' dead hen from a local poultry farm was thrown in to provide the necessary bacteria to kickstart the process. 52 years later it seems to have worked.

 

[MikeJhn]

Fallacy, the only bacteria needed is that in your own waste.