Idiots?

[Digit]

I said it didn't result in a flood, there has been additional regs over the years, the learner restrictions for example. To answer your question, when I passed my test i could have taken it on a 1000cc Vincent, and no a 17 yr old on a Ducati would be bad news, as it would if it was a Ferrari. But the Ferrari is possble if daddy has the money.
Despite your objections, and my own, the death rate amongst learner riders, with CBT etc has gratefully declined.
A few years ago Bob I shared a wash hand basin in Birmingham Accident Hospital with a 19yr old biker. I was in pyjamas, he was in a nappy!

Roy.

 

[doctor Bob]

1098 or even 1198 would have hit better.

LOL now you know when I sold my bike.

 

[MickCheese]

Falling off a bike is painful, but rarely fatal. Most fatal accidents involve another road user, and according to ROSPA it frequently means a car driver not having seen the biker.

Roy.

Roy

Motorcycles make up less than 2% of the traffic in London but 25% of all those killed on the roads are motorcyclists. 1 in 4 is wholly disproportionate and unless motorcyclists take some responsibility for this statistic then we will be legislated off the road. It's no good motorcyclists saying it is all the fault of others, it doesn't hurt less if you crash and you are in the right. Most crashes are avoidable, blame is, to a certain extent, irrelevant.

I have been riding motorcycles for the last 35years, I commute almost every day into London on a bike and am astonished how fast some motorcyclists filter between traffic queues, and I am no slouch myself.

There is lots of research showing why people don't see motorcyclists or more to the point misjudge there speed and distance so pull out thinking they have more time than they actually do or on the other hand fail to appreciate just how fast a bike is travelling. Most road users travel over the speed limit but the consequences of getting it wrong is much more serious for the two wheel user.

Mick

 

[Digit]

Like you Mick, a biker of many years, I have no illusions about bikers and the daft things they can do, but look at another statistic, look at the number of recently qualified car drivers who have an accident?
They are also out of all proportion to their number as drivers versus accidents. The only difference is that they stand a better chance of walking away.
Between us we can clock up 85 yrs of biking, and possibly the same as car drivers, unfortunately we can not graft all that experince on to a 17 yr old, whether he is on a bike or behind the wheel of a car.

Roy.

 

[WoodMangler]

What's next, training wheels ?

 

[MickCheese]

What's next, training wheels ?

No, but I do think further training can help. We cannot rely on other road users to keep us safe so we have to do the best we can to avoid being involved in accidents in the first place.

It is a controversial point but I will say it again, most accident are avoidable and it is definitely not about blame.

Good observation, making plans, and better training for both bikers and drivers would go somewhere to reducing the casualty rate.

Ultimately I think it is biker attitude, so many ride their bikes like they stole them, to non bikers that just gives them the excuse to justify the high accident rates by saying it is self induced.

Mick

 

[Digit]

Yep! There was a kid on the forum moaning that he had been failed on his CBT. It would seem that he's been used to a 'twist and go' but on his CBT he had used a geared bike. Not being used to it he kept forgeting to use his clutch and stalled each time he stopped.
He seemed to think his treatment was unfair. An instructer told him bluntly that he was dangerous.

Roy.

 

[cambournepete]

I've seen almost exactly the same debate about bicycles and their riders. There was a reference in a local paper to "ninja cyclists", riding in black with no lights after dark.
Being a bit of a coward I wear hiviz, and use bright lights on the road - I really don'g see why you wouldn't want to be seen by people in big heavy metal boxes...

I find it much easier to see motorcyclists in hiviz - it's all too easy from a car to miss a cyclist or motorcyclist wearing dark clothes.

 

[Digit]

I agree Pete, I was astonished to find that a number of objecters on the forum I mentioned objected on grounds of 'fashion!'
Probably insist on a designer shroud as well! :lol:

Roy.

 

[doctor Bob]

Do you think this would be acceptable?

 

[Paul Chapman]

Blimey, Bob, your bum looks big on that :shock: :lol:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[MickCheese]

Bob

If he fell off he would bounce so no problem.

Mick

 

[cambournepete]

Well, falling off at speed would certainly help him lose weight...

 

[StevieB]

I ride daily into London and back again from Kent. Hi-viz is fine, but its best use is in the dark when the reflective strips work, not for the day-glow yellow in daytime. I do wear one, but after 5 days its so filthy that the yellow is faded anyway.

As to accident rates - yes, most are avoidable, and yes, bikers riding like eejits are just as responsible for them as car drivers who don't look. If I was to sit in traffic like a car and roll slowly round town like a car then I would be alot safer. And slower. And I might as well be in a car. Riding a bike is about getting from A to B quicker than a car, not getting from A to B as quickly as a bike will let you. Filtering is part and parcel of that, and with the increased speed comes increased responsibility for your own actions - a copper will not stop you for filtering unless you do it insanely fast, but have an off and it will be 50:50 even if the car driver didn't look, for the simple reason you technically shouldn't be there. I find the worst offenders are young kids on scooters, who have no respect for cars, bikes, cyclists or pedestrians, and seem to have the best job in the world judging by the speed they want to get to work in the mornings. Most of these are 'local' so they don't have any big roads to get the speed out of their system before being in London. I have 50 miles of motorway first - the last thing I want to do is filter insanely fast after that.

As for the fashion argument - evolution in action. If you want to look cool, you might just end up cool - in a morgue locker. Do what you can to stay safe and sod the looks. Hi-viz - no problem with that. Compulsory protective clothing - fine by me too. I also use halogen bulbs as headlights and have them on at all times (road legal, not the lighthouse style ones on e-bay!). Flashing lights - no problem with that either - make mine a blue one please!

Steve