Ideal saw for cutting thick table legs to length & square

[Jacob]

..
Just a thought - it would help the OP (and probably many others) if you could post a link or two to good sources of sawing skill information. That wouldn't take long.

Go on then do it!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It's you that knows where these sources of info are.....

 

[Jacob]

It's you that knows where these sources of info are.....

Yes this is true. You find them by googling. Try it you'll be surprised.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

It's you that knows where these sources of info are.....

Yes this is true. You find them by googling. Try it you'll be surprised.

:roll:

 

[matt_southward]

looks like you've got one of those wonky stamped ones!

I have two blades for that #3. One has a "wonky" stamp, the other has a "non-wonky" stamp. But both are superb blades

Cheers :wink:

Paul

I've a similarly wonky stamped blade on my 5 and it is also superb. It's a shame they are moving to laser etched cryo stuff - the forging was something I loved about Clifton.

 

[Jacob]

It's you that knows where these sources of info are.....

Yes this is true. You find them by googling. Try it you'll be surprised.

:roll:

I don't quite know what I've done to set off a troll.
My suggestion that technique is important (more important than the saw) and that there is a lot of info on the net seem OK to me. I don't want to spend this evening writing an essay on the subject but am happy to help otherwise.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Saw roughly to length then use a shooting board to finish accurately

The OP was wanting to use wood 10cm thick, which is really too thick to use on a shooting board. For thinner stuff a shooting board would be ideal and very accurate.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Bod]

I've just tried out your method and it worked very well. I gave my smoother no4 a resharpen and it managed hard maple end grain pretty well. Perhaps I will stick with my own saw now too.

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a63 ... 9ef36a.jpg
http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a63 ... 40c51a.jpg


If you have time I have a few more questions.

When you saw how close do you get to your knife line? I presume just as close as possible.

I notice you don't seem to have planed all the way to the edges as they are different colour, presumable from your knife. Does that mean the ends surface isn't all an equal level, so with a middle island raised slightly? My thought was you'd plane away till the outside knife lines are no longer visible, therefore telling you everything is now square.

That saw in the 2nd photo, is worth having a better look at. It may well be all it needs is a good sharpen & set, or a retooth, to be a "good-un"

Bod

 

[RogerP]

Saw roughly to length then use a shooting board to finish accurately

The OP was wanting to use wood 10cm thick, which is really too thick to use on a shooting board. For thinner stuff a shooting board would be ideal and very accurate.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

... ah yes, forgot that!

You'd need a very large board, a very large plane and a very strong arm!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

This Youtube video by Chris Tribe packs a lot of good info into a fairly short time - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwD83cv_IoQ

For sawing thicker stock, maybe use a panel saw rather than a backsaw, though by turning the stock, you can cut quite thick stuff with a backsaw.

Different technique for knocking down rough stock - use a coarser-toothed saw and saw-horses, and allow a much larger margin between dimension line and cut line - that should prevent the inevitable spelching on the underside reaching the bit you want.

 

[Tetsuaiga]

That saw in the 2nd photo, is worth having a better look at. It may well be all it needs is a good sharpen & set, or a retooth, to be a "good-un"

Bod

Yes I think my opinion of it's improved a little. A finer toothed one would give a better finish, maybe be easier to start, but it already takes quite a long time with that one which is quite aggressive.

Here's a slightly closer picture of the saw, it has a few teeth missing but seems straight and I gave it a sharpen with a file despite not being 100% sure I was doing it right, but it works well enough.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Some more tips (and an arguably slightly OTT sawbench) from Tom Fidgen - http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/how ... kills.html

 

[bugbear]

My suggestion that technique is important (more important than the saw) and that there is a lot of info on the net seem OK to me. I don't want to spend this evening writing an essay on the subject but am happy to help otherwise.

One of the problem when searching the net is not having having enough experience to know the good information from the bad,
so feel free to provide actual help by recommending particular links that you have found.

Start with just one link that you feel the OP should look at, if you can't be bothered to do more.

BugBear

 

[blackrodd]

What about the good old shooting board?
Keeps the work square and well finished, easy to saw close to the line and finish on the shooting board, at least until the sawing skills improve.
I keep saying I must make another one, I'll need one soon, for a little project.
Regards Rodders

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Here's a thought no one has considered. Make the table and then true up the legs! Slight variations caused during assembly, including fitting the top, so do that too, will invariably cause the bottoms of the legs to not be co planar. Final trueing up is best done as a last step, so too much fussing on each individual leg is often wasted. Cut accurately to a knifed line and leave it at that until the table is glued up. You'll likely find an amount from the bottoms of at least two legs has to be removed to get the table to sit on a flat surface. Chamfers on the leg bottoms make the small adjustments needed easy to do by planing and eliminated spelching.

Mike.

 

[Jacob]

Hello,

Here's a thought no one has considered. Make the table and then true up the legs! Slight variations caused during assembly, including fitting the top, so do that too, will invariably cause the bottoms of the legs to not be co planar. Final trueing up is best done as a last step, so too much fussing on each individual leg is often wasted. Cut accurately to a knifed line and leave it at that until the table is glued up. You'll likely find an amount from the bottoms of at least two legs has to be removed to get the table to sit on a flat surface. Chamfers on the leg bottoms make the small adjustments needed easy to do by planing and eliminated spelching.

Mike.

Agree. In fact normal practice - except the knife lines. No point in knife marks if they are to be trimmed or left, due to slight variations.
"Marking knife" is a misnomer - they should not be used for "marking" (unless to make indelible marks)* but should be reserved only for those marks which are best started as a knife cut e.g. the visible side of a tenon shoulder (but not the other side) and other precise things such as inlay, veneer, small boxes etc

The OPs 4" table legs:
many saws would do but ideally a 6tpi hand saw.
Cut close to the pencil line without actually removing it. Or allow a few mm over. This to be trimmed off at the end of the construction as a bit of extra length will protect the ends as it is being handled and bashed about.
At no point should the saw exit the wood except via a cut already made, except the first nick - start with a backwards pull on the far corner then saw forwards into this nick, across the top then down the face in front of you until you have cut half through diagonally. This way the saw is always in the cut whilst being guided down just one line and there is no risk of spelching.
Turn it over and complete the other diagonal cut starting with the saw well in the cut already made, as you guide it along the lines of the remaining two faces.
If you have a little extra length you could bevel down to the lines (which is where a block plane is handy) and then remove the middle with a bigger plane.
The bottom of a table leg is usually bevelled anyway, to stop it spelching out when dragged across the floor.

*marking indelible marks - this is just a theory of mine but I have found old woodwork with knife lines for the mortices but on one side only - the back, out of sight. My theory is that a senior would have made these marks from the rod and then passed the work to a junior to complete, with accurate marks already indelibly in place.

It's easiest to do the first shallow cut on the bench on hooks but all the others from above on a saw stool, holding it down with your knee.

PS there was a mention of "fine finish" somewhere above - but you don't want fine finish from a saw cut as sawn surfaces are always out of sight. But you do want accuracy (a co planar surface) and you may well want a clean edge, which may be easier to achieve after the saw cut with a plane etc.

 

[Trafalgar]

I would like to avoid buying a table saw/mitre saw at the moment but need to cut some table legs, probably around 9-10cm thick.

I can just about manage to cut squarely by hand but none of my saws are really usable anymore. I had a crosscut japanese pull saw which I liked but bent and an old slightly rusty, missing teeth panel saw which i'm not sure if that is rip or cross cut, but it is quite rough and aggressive.

The wider saws are quite nice as I feel you can sense the degree more easily, but at the same time more heavy saws seem harder to control.

So whats would be the ideal saw for this work? Thanks

Your finish cuts to the legs do not happen until the table is assembled and the glue thoroughly dry. This is when you level the legs so the table sits without rocking.

If you need a little "how-to" information with line drawings on all of this there is none better than Robert Wearing's The Essential Woodworker.

The correct saw would be a 10" to 12" Western tenon saw. A panel saw with 12ppi would be acceptable if the legs are really thick. You should be at a point in your woodworking where you can wield these saws well, i.e., following incised or sharply drawn lines should be well within your capability and comfort zone. If not, practice is advised.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

The OPs 4" table legs:
many saws would do but ideally a 6tpi hand saw.
Cut close to the pencil line without actually removing it. Or allow a few mm over. This to be trimmed off at the end of the construction as a bit of extra length will protect the ends as it is being handled and bashed about.
At no point should the saw exit the wood except via a cut already made, except the first nick - start with a backwards pull on the far corner then saw forwards into this nick, across the top then down the face in front of you until you have cut half through diagonally. This way the saw is always in the cut whilst being guided down just one line and there is no risk of spelching.
Turn it over and complete the other diagonal cut starting with the saw well in the cut already made, as you guide it along the lines of the remaining two faces.
If you have a little extra length you could bevel down to the lines (which is where a block plane is handy) and then remove the middle with a bigger plane.
The bottom of a table leg is usually bevelled anyway, to stop it spelching out when dragged across the floor.

*marking indelible marks - this is just a theory of mine but I have found old woodwork with knife lines for the mortices but on one side only - the back, out of sight. My theory is that a senior would have made these marks from the rod and then passed the work to a junior to complete, with accurate marks already indelibly in place.

It's easiest to do the first shallow cut on the bench on hooks but all the others from above on a saw stool, holding it down with your knee.

PS there was a mention of "fine finish" somewhere above - but you don't want fine finish from a saw cut as sawn surfaces are always out of sight. But you do want accuracy (a co planar surface) and you may well want a clean edge, which may be easier to achieve after the saw cut with a plane etc.

It's a pity you didn't post this yesterday evening instead of suggesting the OP goes googling. It would have taken less time than the pointless and silly argument that ensued.

In general, that's a perfectly valid approach. It's not for the finest work (use the approach Paul Chapman detailed so well for first class work), but it'll do perfectly adequately for 'second class' work. For cutting rough stock to length-plus-a-bit-for-finishing, just mark with a pencil and cut straight through with the coarsest saw available - if the cut wanders a bit, or there's a bit of breakout, doesn't really matter.

The best person to decide whether the cut warrants 'first class', 'second class' or 'rough' approach is the person doing the work in hand.

PS - In general, finer toothed saws give a better finish, so are more appropriate for better class cuts. All sawcuts will need some finishing if the surfaces are to show, but rougher saw cuts will need more work to finish than finer ones.

 

[Jacob]

...
It's a pity you didn't post this yesterday evening instead of suggesting the OP goes googling. It would have taken less time than the pointless and silly argument that ensued.

It's a pity that you kicked off a silly argument for no good reason - someone might have googled up better stuff than my contribution.

In general, that's a perfectly valid approach. It's not for the finest work (use the approach Paul Chapman detailed so well for first class work), but it'll do perfectly adequately for 'second class' work.

It'll do for 1st class work too - it's all down to the finishing touches

For cutting rough stock to length-plus-a-bit-for-finishing, just mark with a pencil and cut straight through with the coarsest saw available - if the cut wanders a bit, or there's a bit of breakout, doesn't really matter.

That's not what I'm describing at all - just in case we have our wires crossed again!

..
PS - In general, finer toothed saws give a better finish, so are more appropriate for better class cuts. All sawcuts will need some finishing if the surfaces are to show, but rougher saw cuts will need more work to finish than finer ones.

In general finer saws are for thinner material. The finish doesn't matter much as long as you are accurate.

 

[Tetsuaiga]

Thank you. I have been looking for a good book that will take me through all the steps in detail. The books i've read before are all very basic, despite being around 300 pages long they're full or rubbish like explanations of what each tool is, which isn't the type of thing I need. So I may try this book you've recommended.

The first table i'm doing is just a workbench so i'm not really too worried about getting it spot on but I'd like to try a real table after at some point.