I just want a nice METRIC ONLY comination square

[Ollie78]

I have been on a quite annoying search today for a nice quality combo 300mm square in metric only, I would not have expected it to be so hard to find one.
The Empire one I have is adequate but getting super worn, hard to read and I have never really loved the markings on it, no one seems to do the same one now anyway.

It looks like I will have to buy a Starrett to get one I like.

Axminster do one but it is not nice quality, the Moore and Wright and Mitutoyo don`t seem to come in metric only which means the end of the rule is flush with the slightly longer imperial measurements.
PEC are highly recommended in the USA and apparently make some for other brands too but can only find inch ones.
There is quite a good one from RS components I may consider but it doesn`t have the nice chrome surface I want.
Igaging from woodworkers workshop has inches on it.
I looked at this thing https://trigjig.co.uk/collections/c...ducts/glyder-125-combination-square-body-only
which looks kind of nice but the premise of the design is a bit odd, the thing is they have" been made the same way for over 100 years " for a reason Starrett designed it well and it works. I didn`t like the fact that you can`t access the full length of the blade without taking the ruler out like on a normal square.
The Bridge city design looks great with its stainless head but it is silly money and no one sells them in the UK.

So looks like a Starrett C11 MEH 300 or the C33 MH 300 are my options.

Is there something I am missing here, I have plenty of different squares in the workshop but I need a normal combi square in my van/ toolbox.

I would have thought metric only should be the default and you should have to "find" an imperial one, I thought I was going mad.

Rant over

Ollie

 

[Doug71]

These look quite nice

https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/ultra-combi-max-fortyfive-320mm

 

[Ollie78]

These look quite nice

https://benchdogs.co.uk/products/ultra-combi-max-fortyfive-320mm

Yes, it doesn`t look bad I will add it to the shortlist. Trouble is with these things you need to feel / use them to know if they are nice. The blade is a bit extra wide.

Ollie

 

[Duncan A]

Would this help with your dilemma?
https://www.classichandtools.com/sterling-tool-works-combination-rules-metric/p1594
Duncan

 

[Spectric]

@Ollie78 I guess you were born in 78 and are not 78 going by your anti inches rant !!

I find having both metric and imperial can be handy, yes it may sound strange saying I need a piece of wood 23 inches by 250 mm but I use whichever is easier to remember. Yes the Benchdogs item is very nice but maybe just to nice to be in the back of a van but then probably not much difference in cost to a starrett which is the go to for engineering more than woodwork.

 

[ChaiLatte]

If you want metric-only, maybe start looking in countries that are metric only (which, I am glad to say, does not include the UK).

There are German, French, Swiss, Swedish, Japanese*, etc. suppliers of fine tools. Even if you do not buy from them (or they will not sell to a non-European country), you could find who manufactures the tool and that might give yo ua lead for a UK supplier.

It is a wide base square, but all four sides of the scale are in millimetres:

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/lasquare-combination-square-wide-faced-uk

Axminster sell metric -only combination rules/rulers (but I cannot see any clamping groove in their photos):

https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-precision-600mm-metric-rule-for-combination-square-105406

Metric-only combination rules/rulers here:

https://www.classichandtools.com/sterling-tool-works-combination-rules-metric/p1594

* I watch a reasonable number of Japanese woodworking videos and it always surprises me how many use tape measures graduated in both systems.

 

[Oscar43634]

I bought a drillpro one from bangood last year and have been pleasantly surprised at the build quality.

https://www.banggood.com/Drillpro-A...easuring-Tool-p-1617483.html?cur_warehouse=CN

 

[Sideways]

If you want a top quality item, then the thing you need to look for are hardened, tempered and ground surfaces. That applies to the rule as well as the heads. They won't be chromed because you are then putting a plating which adds an imperfectly controlled layer on top of a precision ground edge.
I'd be amazed if you can't get a suitable item from Mitutoyo, and my M&W set comes with metric only on one side of the blade (2 scales, starting from either end) and a pair of inch scales on the reverse. I never use the imperial markings as the blade can be rotated and flipped so I can always use the metric. The code of the rule alone is CSRM300.

A good combo square will cost you well over £100.
Starrett have hugely devalued their brand these days. They make some real cheap crap. Don't buy anything of theirs without an absolute right to return it.
Even the M&W aren't as good as they were. I'd look at Mitutoyo.

And if you are looking at anything with an aluminium head, you're just playing at it, not serious about precision.

 

[Sachakins]

Looks interesting
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/40456824...ar=674562829353&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

[Ollie78]

If you want a top quality item, then the thing you need to look for are hardened, tempered and ground surfaces. That applies to the rule as well as the heads. They won't be chromed because you are then putting a plating which adds an imperfectly controlled layer on top of a precision ground edge.
I'd be amazed if you can't get a suitable item from Mitutoyo, and my M&W set comes with metric only on one side of the blade (2 scales, starting from either end) and a pair of inch scales on the reverse. I never use the imperial markings as the blade can be rotated and flipped so I can always use the metric. The code of the rule alone is CSRM300.

A good combo square will cost you well over £100.
Starrett have hugely devalued their brand these days. They make some real cheap rubbish. Don't buy anything of theirs without an absolute right to return it.
Even the M&W aren't as good as they were. I'd look at Mitutoyo.

And if you are looking at anything with an aluminium head, you're just playing at it, not serious about precision.

I am quite amazed I can't find a Mitutoyo myself.
I have no issue spending the money, it will be pennies a year if it lasts as it should.
I was just genuinely surprised "everyone" doesn't do metric only options. It's the same with tapes, but I have found my favourite one now (Advent vice versa).

Part of my issue with the blades with metric and imperial is the fact that they are 304.8 mm Long which means that the rule does not line up with the 0mm/300mm on one end it makes it awkward and is the sort of thing where I will make an error.

Interesting what you say about the ground hardened rules. I am assuming they add the chrome layer after all that.
I suppose the ideal would be a fully stainless steel head and rule with a very fine ground finish.
The reason I am after the satin chrome finish is because I find my Veritas steel plate type square super easy to read and it has this finish, it's the easiest to read square I have, pity they don't make a combi style one.

That Sterling rule does look nice and very similar in finish to the veritas one I like but as I need a head as well then might not be worthwhile over the Starrett set.

The Axminster ones I had considered but then I played with one in the store it was quite poorly made/ finished and just not nice to use.

Ollie

 

[Calum Bettison]

I am quite amazed I can't find a Mitutoyo myself.
I have no issue spending the money, it will be pennies a year if it lasts as it should.
I was just genuinely surprised "everyone" doesn't do metric only options. It's the same with tapes, but I have found my favourite one now (Advent vice versa).

Part of my issue with the blades with metric and imperial is the fact that they are 304.8 mm Long which means that the rule does not line up with the 0mm/300mm on one end it makes it awkward and is the sort of thing where I will make an error.

Interesting what you say about the ground hardened rules. I am assuming they add the chrome layer after all that.
I suppose the ideal would be a fully stainless steel head and rule with a very fine ground finish.
The reason I am after the satin chrome finish is because I find my Veritas steel plate type square super easy to read and it has this finish, it's the easiest to read square I have, pity they don't make a combi style one.

That Sterling rule does look nice and very similar in finish to the veritas one I like but as I need a head as well then might not be worthwhile over the Starrett set.

The Axminster ones I had considered but then I played with one in the store it was quite poorly made/ finished and just not nice to use.

Ollie

Hey Ollie, if it’s any help, I can happily recommend the Starrett 300mm combi square. I bit the bullet and bought one a couple of years ago.

It was a big outlay but it just works. Like their normal steel rules, the one in the combi square works both ways round, from both ends, which means whichever way you’re measuring from it’s always the right way round.

I feel your pain with the metric only/reversible ruler situation, but I can say the Starrett one would tick your boxes if you could justify the outlay.

 

[ChaiLatte]

Part of my issue with the blades with metric and imperial is the fact that they are 304.8 mm Long which means that the rule does not line up with the 0mm/300mm

I am having some difficulty understanding the nature of your complaint. On a dual-reading rule, both scales start at zero at the same place. If you turn the blade over, both scales start at zero at the same place.

With a traditional square, you can have either the metric or the imperial scale adjacent the stock of the square by reversing (rotating 180 degrees) the clamping screw so its hook faces the opposite way.

It is only at the 300mm end of the rule that the imperial scale passes the metric one. I normally start my measurements from zero not 300mm.

Since the stock of the good quality squares is cast iron, the comments above about hardened, tempered and ground and chrome plating (motorbike fork tubes are chromed and then ground after plating) should be assessed for their veracity before being used to inform any decision on purchasing.

 

[Calum Bettison]

I am having some difficulty understanding the nature of your complaint. On a dual-reading rule, both scales start at zero at the same place. If you turn the blade over, both scales start at zero at the same place.

With a traditional square, you can have either the metric or the imperial scale adjacent the stock of the square by reversing (rotating 180 degrees) the clamping screw so its hook faces the opposite way.

It is only at the 300mm end of the rule that the imperial scale passes the metric one. I normally start my measurements from zero not 300mm.

Since the stock of the good quality squares is cast iron, the comments above about hardened, tempered and ground and chrome plating (motorbike fork tubes are chromed and then ground after plating) should be assessed for their veracity before being used to inform any decision on purchasing.

I think the issue with metric/imperial rules are that you have to go to the bother of flipping the rule around. It’s not a complete write off but it is definitely a faff if you have to repeatedly alternate which way round the rule is facing.

Even with most metric only steel rules, if all of the 0s start at the same end of the rule, sometimes you have to remove the rule and flip it around. That’s what I find most useful about the Starrett ones, they lay out the markings so it can never be the wrong way round.

 

[Calum Bettison]

I was just genuinely surprised "everyone" doesn't do metric only options.

Surely it’s just to cater to the American/Canadian audience and to reduce the variation in manufacturing costs?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I would have thought metric only should be the default and you should have to "find" an imperial one, I thought I was going mad.

Rant over

Ollie

I expect they're nearly all designed to sell in the USA.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Surely it’s just to cater to the American/Canadian audience and to reduce the variation in manufacturing costs?

Sorry, I didn't get as far as your post.

 

[AJB Temple]

I would check that the Starrett (proper ones not the cheap range) meets your needs before buying. I have US made Starrett small and large combis and they are both very good quality. But....as they aged the engraving became harder to read, especially in a bright environment where there is not enough contrast. There are also fakes about (not pointing the finger at river shop at all...). I also have Mitituyo (bought from eNay some while ago) and the scale legibility on that is much better. Superb quality.

I was given an Axminster precision one a couple of years ago and I thought it was rubbish. The manufacturing quality is poor as there was a lot of slop in the rule / clamp junction. My experience of Axminster branded or clone tools is that these days they use the customer for quality control. They happily replace if you complain, but any old stuff goes out of the door unchecked I think.

 

[Not-Entirely-Useless]

I'd look at Mitutoyo.

I have been on a quite annoying search today for a nice quality combo 300mm square in metric only, I would not have expected it to be so hard to find one.
The Empire one I have is adequate but getting super worn, hard to read and I have never really loved the markings on it, no one seems to do the same one now anyway.

It looks like I will have to buy a Starrett to get one I like.

Axminster do one but it is not nice quality, the Moore and Wright and Mitutoyo don`t seem to come in metric only which means the end of the rule is flush with the slightly longer imperial measurements.
PEC are highly recommended in the USA and apparently make some for other brands too but can only find inch ones.
There is quite a good one from RS components I may consider but it doesn`t have the nice chrome surface I want.
Igaging from woodworkers workshop has inches on it.
I looked at this thing https://trigjig.co.uk/collections/c...ducts/glyder-125-combination-square-body-only
which looks kind of nice but the premise of the design is a bit odd, the thing is they have" been made the same way for over 100 years " for a reason Starrett designed it well and it works. I didn`t like the fact that you can`t access the full length of the blade without taking the ruler out like on a normal square.
The Bridge city design looks great with its stainless head but it is silly money and no one sells them in the UK.

So looks like a Starrett C11 MEH 300 or the C33 MH 300 are my options.

Is there something I am missing here, I have plenty of different squares in the workshop but I need a normal combi square in my van/ toolbox.

I would have thought metric only should be the default and you should have to "find" an imperial one, I thought I was going mad.

Rant over

Ollie

Look at Pretsch - German made, very good value. , well put together and not very expensive (and metric only)

 

[AJB Temple]

I would be astounded if the Presch tools like combi squares are made in Germany. They may be designed in Germany, but when they are manufactured in Germany they generally have that marked very clearly on them. I think their made in Germany jigsaw blades are actually manufactured by Bosch (who make lots of drill bits and blades badged for others).

 

[Fitzroy]

I am quite amazed I can't find a Mitutoyo myself.
I have no issue spending the money, it will be pennies a year if it lasts as it should.
I was just genuinely surprised "everyone" doesn't do metric only options. It's the same with tapes, but I have found my favourite one now (Advent vice versa).

Part of my issue with the blades with metric and imperial is the fact that they are 304.8 mm Long which means that the rule does not line up with the 0mm/300mm on one end it makes it awkward and is the sort of thing where I will make an error.

Interesting what you say about the ground hardened rules. I am assuming they add the chrome layer after all that.
I suppose the ideal would be a fully stainless steel head and rule with a very fine ground finish.
The reason I am after the satin chrome finish is because I find my Veritas steel plate type square super easy to read and it has this finish, it's the easiest to read square I have, pity they don't make a combi style one.

That Sterling rule does look nice and very similar in finish to the veritas one I like but as I need a head as well then might not be worthwhile over the Starrett set.

The Axminster ones I had considered but then I played with one in the store it was quite poorly made/ finished and just not nice to use.

Ollie

I too settle on the Mitutoyo set as a present to myself a couple of months back, and there is not one for sale anywhere, but I can find no news of them being discontinued. At the moment eBay seems the only option to get one, with all the pitfalls that involves!