I have won a Morticer!

[ByronBlack]

Some interesting points here. The reason I chose this morticer over a K1 or something similar was mainly price, location, weight and the size.

I could have spent more money for an integrated sliding table but then I would either be compromising capacity and power, or I would need more floorspace or a bigger budget. When all things were considered I felt a machine like this for the money would represent the best deal, as I can now spend the money I have saved on a quality set of chisels and sharpening cones.

Making some auxillary end stops should be pretty easy - making a similar setup to how people make these mitre-stations, and If i'm really wanting an XY table, there are many aftermarket ones available - even a compound table might do the trick, BUT I just don't need the speed yet.

Like you Mr G, I mark out all my mortices first - more out of fear of Cucumbering something up than anything else.

So far i'm impressed with this one. It's got good capacity, and goes through the hardest wood that I own with the budget chisel that came with it (albeit not in one stroke). If I ever go down the route of batch processing then a Sedegwick or Multico would definitly be on my shopping list, but for now i'm just a hobbyist, so speed/repeatability are not the highest requirements - yet.

 

[Anonymous]

snip
Like you Mr G, I mark out all my mortices first - more out of fear of Cucumbering something up than anything else.
snip

Exactly why you should do it, what other reason would you want!
I'd advise always doing it and not taking short cuts.
BTW I've thought of a brilliant analogy for the rod system which you would understand Byron; it's a sort of woodworkers cascading style sheet - get it right at the beginning and everything which follows is likely to be right.

cheers
Jacob

 

[ByronBlack]

Jacob - that is indeed a very good analogy! And you'll be pleased to know that since you mentioned how to create a rod, i've made one up for the workbench project and will be using this to mark up my mortices. It does take a lot of messing around out of the equation.

It's a shame though that unlike a stylesheet you can't change your mind afterwards and add or subtract margins from cuts

 

[Scrit]

I'd advise always doing it and not taking short cuts.

You'll be telling me next that you'd mark out sheet stock before putting it on a panel saw, Jacob :wink:

When doing things by hand I mark out everything. On a machine with repeat stops it just seems a waste of time and effort

Scrit

 

[ByronBlack]

Ok Update:

I'm still getting a very noisy clacky sound and the chisels/bit seem to get red hot to the touch within about two plunges. I'm definitly setting it up correctly, I even made a shim to adjust the depth of bit/chisel.

Anyways, after some investigation I've narrowed it down to the guide bush that the chisel fits into. There is some play where it fits into the machines casting. When i do up the hex-screw to hold the chisel and bush in place it pushes the chisel over a smidgen due the play between the bush and the casting - this is causing the auger bit to rattle against the inside of the chisel - which i'm assuming is casuing the excessive heat.

I tried putting a piece of masking tape on the side of the guide-bush without much luck as it's too tight a fit, the gap between the bush and casting is tiny, but seems enough to make a difference.

If I have the motor running, and move the chisel about inside the guide-bush whilest its a little loose I can get it to the point where the auger spins freely without rattling the chisel, but as soon as I tighten it, it's moved too far one way.

Any idea's how to remedy this? Could it be that I just need a new guide bush and chisel?

I've also tried this with a different chisel (a slightsly smaller one) and get the same effect.

 

[Scrit]

Byron

How's about publishing a photo of the bushing in place and with the locking screw clearly visible?

Scrit

 

[Anonymous]

Try turning the guide bush and fitting it in different positions. If it's a Jacobs chuck (no relation) try tightening at each of the 3 key holes equally. Try a drop of oil. Try different spacing of auger and chisel. I set mine by doing it up with no clearance then just dropping the auger about 2mm.

cheers
Jacob

 

[ByronBlack]

Some photos:

The Chuck:

The Guide Bush:

Chisel and bush inserted into casting:

When the guide bush and chisel are located, i've measured almost a full 1mm of deflection to the right when the bolt is tightened (to tighted the chisel and bush) thus pushing the chisel out of plane with the auger bit.

I've tried turning the guide bush to see if its an irregular shape, but the same problems occur.

I'm going to phone the guy I bought it of and see what he say's, i'm thinking he might have sold it due to this problem, if not he might have some idea's on how to get this all sorted.

 

[Anonymous]

Its a normal sort of set up. On mine the "yoke" thingy which holds the bush, is a separate casting bolted to the motor housing and can be moved very slightly to alter the alignment. Which would fix your prob by the sound of it.

cheers
Jacob

 

[ByronBlack]

Cheers Jacob,

I can't see where I would have that facility, as all I have got is a threaded hole in the casing where a bolt goes through and into the hole in the guide bush, because of the play in the components it's always deflecting it when tightened.

I've just spoken to the previous owner, and he never used the cheap chisels that came with the machine, he used a clico set and had no problems so I think i'll get myself a decent chisel and bit and see where that gets me.

 

[Scrit]

I was wondering if your machine was one of those where the bushing was split and needed to be located in a particular orientation viz a viz the lock screw. But it isn't

I've just spoken to the previous owner, and he never used the cheap chisels that came with the machine, he used a Clico set and had no problems so I think I'll get myself a decent chisel and bit and see where that gets me.

I think that is possibly your problem - machining tolerances of the chisels.

Scrit

 

[llangatwgnedd]

Bryon, If he used the Clico chisels with no problem, then thats because the bushing is for English and Japanese chisels and not 3/4"bushed Taiwan/chinese chisels.
I do recommend the Jap chisels beautiful steel compared to Taiwanese I once owned.

 

[Scrit]

You can clearly see how large the ejection slots are on the Jap chisels from the photograph, too. Good photograph

Scrit

 

[ByronBlack]

Sawdust producer;

Thanks for the info regarding the Jap chisels - i'm assuming from the label that it is the current axminster chisel? On their website they don't state what shank size the chisels are.

I'm still slightly concerned, because the chisel shank of these cheap ones do sit fine in the bushing, in fact some of them are quite stiff to turn once inside the bushing. It's actually when the bushing is inside the casing that there is a wobble thats creating the deflection when tightened - I can't see how there would be a difference using a different chisel, unless of course the shanks of the Jap chisel force the bushing sligthly wider thus taking up the slack in the casing?

I'm also a bit concerned that Simon/Old and all the reviews i've read havn't had a problem with the supplied chisels.. i'm very confused on the whole matter.

But if the Axminster japanese pattern chisels will fit my current bushing i'll give that a go (almost half the price of the clico's) and see what happens. I could always send it back to axminster if it doesn't work.

 

[llangatwgnedd]

English and Jap chisels are 13/16" shank, Taiwan is 3/4" shank, Axminster do a adapter for £11.94 order No 400043 and read the description.

Find out if the seller still has the 3/4" bushing as my Jet mortiser came with three Bushes :shock:

 

[ByronBlack]

But if the cheap chisels fit into the current bushing, then surely it's a 3/4 inch one? Which means that replacing the chisel will make no difference as the deflection is coming from the ill fitting bushing (when fitted inside the casing) and not an ill-fitting chisel!

Simon/Old - can you shed any light on this regards to the chattering and heating of the supplied chisels, and do the bushings on your machines deflect at all when tightened?

 

[Slim]

I'll check for you tomorrow Byron (can't check now, my workshop is 5 miles away), but I have never noticed any over heating or play.

 

[Lord Nibbo]

The cheap chisels that came with my record machine overhated, and rattled excessively making **** of a din, although they felt sharp the amount of pressure needed to get them to work said otherwize. Then I bought a Draper expert range of chisels. No noise, no over heating and very easy with little presure to make a cut. Chalk and cheese comes to mind. :lol:

 

[OLD]

I have some deflection but not 1mm so how to correct this :- new bush made to fit, tin the old bush and file to fit, shim using feeler gauge to get correct fit.
I mentioned before tighten the chuck or the auger will push up and loose clearance and give noise and heat its worth a check .Also look for bright spots metal to metal contact to prove your side play idea.
This m/c has had good reviews in the past.
http://www.recordpower.co.uk/index.pl?s=knowledge&dc=20&dp=64
note £1 coin.

 

[ByronBlack]

Hi everyone,

Thanks to you all who have helped me out so far with the morticer. Despite trying all the setup techniques here and from sources elsewhere I can't get a decent setup.

I can confirm however that the problem is not such a major issue in software as it is the beech, therefore in my opinion half the problem is the sharpness or lack thereof. The other half of the problem is definitely the sloppy fitting bushing. I can confirm this as i've since tried a different set of chisels in the machine and get the same effect.

Due to the wonders of the internet I have since sold this machine and will be looking at alternatives.