I have finished my oak conservatory!!!

[mpooley]

Mike,

is your beam over the kitchen opening deflecting under the point-load of the post........or was it a bit bent to start with?

I would be interested to know how you glazed this, because you will know as well as anyone that this oak is going to shrink and move all over the place, particularly as it is a conservatory, and that will potentially cause difficulties with the glazing. This isn't being picky...........I'm sure you have allowed for this movement.........I'm just interested in what detail you used.

I also notice your low-level sockets.......have the wires come up from the plate below, or down from the top? Did you run the rebate for the wires behind the door frame mouldings? Finally, did you use pattination oil on your lead, to save a bit of staining on the oak?

Anyway, well done again..........I really like this.

Mike

I dont think the beam is sagging it is not perfectly straight thats for sure but i dont think there is much wieght on it to be honest.
I glazed it externally using softwood battens letting the glass float and then capping it with oak.
Thats how the wiring was done too. double rows of batten with trunking fed down from the top between them and then drilled through from the outside.

No patination :shock:

Thanks

Mike

 

[mpooley]

very good, a real economy of form that lends itself to the glazing well.

How did you fit the glazing in the end?

BTW try to avoid ANY heating in this room for as long as you can stand [i'm talking in years here]. The slower that oak dries the happier your joints and glazing will be.

===time passes=====

Oh looks like you've surface mounted it. Excellent!

Thanks Milkman
and for your advice at the beginning.

I doubt if the Mrs will allow me not to heat it.( i have installed underfloor heating)
the oak was 3 years old except for the kiln dried stuff. so Im hoping the worst of the movement will be over :shock:

 

[dicktimber]

Make my Gazebo look sad!!!!!

Excellent!!!
Mike

 

[CWatters]

I'm also interested in thos big M&T. Did you use a chain morticer?

 

[shim20]

looks awsome, very nice work.

 

[mpooley]

I'm also interested in thos big M&T. Did you use a chain morticer?

thanks everyone

my wife says please stop cos my head is big enough already

but i say keep it coming

to answer the question no i used a router and 60mm straight cutter and a jig i knocked up.
would have been nice to had a chain morticer though

Mike

 

[milkman]

very good, a real economy of form that lends itself to the glazing well.

How did you fit the glazing in the end?

BTW try to avoid ANY heating in this room for as long as you can stand [i'm talking in years here]. The slower that oak dries the happier your joints and glazing will be.

===time passes=====

Oh looks like you've surface mounted it. Excellent!

Thanks Milkman
and for your advice at the beginning.

I doubt if the Mrs will allow me not to heat it.( i have installed underfloor heating)
the oak was 3 years old except for the kiln dried stuff. so Im hoping the worst of the movement will be over :shock:

Was just at Frame 2008 last weekend with lots of timber framers. One of them gave a talk on glazing frames and his main bugbear was heating. You'll be pleased to know that underfloor heating was his preferred method.

 

[motownmartin]

WOW

 

[Imperial]

Admiration from me, with just a smidgen of jealousy!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[digitalbot]

Jealous isn't the word! :twisted:
And not only because it looks fantastic but because i'll probably never aquire the necessary skills to build something like that myself.

Knowing almost nothing about this sort of thing, how would you attach something like that to the base, if indeed it is attached?
And what was your rough budget for the something like that if I may be so bold as to ask?

 

[deanflyer]

Really nice work - I love the chunkiness of it, combined with the open glazing.

I have a conservatory to rebuild, unfortunately I cant stretch to oak!!

 

[seaco]

That's truly beautiful, well done... :wink:

 

[johnf]

Excellent job I am jealous =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

 

[mpooley]

Jealous isn't the word! :twisted:
And not only because it looks fantastic but because i'll probably never aquire the necessary skills to build something like that myself.

Knowing almost nothing about this sort of thing, how would you attach something like that to the base, if indeed it is attached?
And what was your rough budget for the something like that if I may be so bold as to ask?

its actually not attached at all :shock:

Im hoping the weight of the thing will be enough :roll:

about £22000.00 in all but that includes everything, floor tiles, underfloor heating, electric velux windows, very expensive door mechanisms etc etc.
Glass was over £7500.00 :shock:
leadwork was £1100.00 it soon adds up!!
I did the vast majority of it myself just got a roofer mate to do the leadwork.

I honestly think that the skills needed are fairly basic, I mean a few mortices and tenons and its done
:roll:

Mike

 

[devonwoody]

Glass £7K, could have cut the cost down with sidings and a thatched roof

Very nice.

 

[mpooley]

Glass £7K, could have cut the cost down with sidings and a thatched roof

Very nice.

yeah a lot cheaper to do it like that.

not a lot of sunshine in it though

 

[lurker]

Wow!!

Brilliant design
Brilliant workmanship

I think I'll give up and take up knitting

 

[Simon]

Great job Mike it looks fantastic, I have kept looking for your post in anticipation

I was also at Frame at the weekend, so we probably met or saw each other. You must have been pleased to hear the talks on glazing and designing for shrinkage and it looks like you made lots of the right decisions, especially with regard to using oak that had been sat around for a while.

My only observation would be that your tenons look a tad short, however because of the age of the oak you may get away with it. The amount of oak beyond the peg in the tenon (referred to as the relish....not quite sure why) is the limiting factor of joints in tension. Additionally if you draw bore you can blow out the relish if it is too short. For that reason a usual rule of thumb would be a couple of inches of relish beyond the peg. As you didn't use green oak I am hoping that isn't going to be a problem for you. Just keep that place ventilated and hopefully give us all an update on how it ages.

 

[mpooley]

Great job Mike it looks fantastic, I have kept looking for your post in anticipation

I was also at Frame at the weekend, so we probably met or saw each other. You must have been pleased to hear the talks on glazing and designing for shrinkage and it looks like you made lots of the right decisions, especially with regard to using oak that had been sat around for a while.

My only observation would be that your tenons look a tad short, however because of the age of the oak you may get away with it. The amount of oak beyond the peg in the tenon (referred to as the relish....not quite sure why) is the limiting factor of joints in tension. Additionally if you draw bore you can blow out the relish if it is too short. For that reason a usual rule of thumb would be a couple of inches of relish beyond the peg. As you didn't use green oak I am hoping that isn't going to be a problem for you. Just keep that place ventilated and hopefully give us all an update on how it ages.

No it was milkman who went to the show not me - I never even heard of it
the tenons were 50mm which was the deepest i could manage with a router bit- almost all of the tenons are vertical so gravity is helping but im not sure why it would be a problem anyway as im no expert believe me.
is it because of shrinkage?
also i didnt draw bore.

I am strictly an amature - i just read a couple of books and plunged in head first :roll:

Mike

 

[Simon]

Apologies I misread the post....doh

The basic theory is that joints are under tension when the joint elements are trying to pull themselves apart. So in the case of a brace under side load (like wind) the M&T joints will be under tension and compression (depending upon the direction of wind load). Simply this means that one M&T is being compressed (so no real problem), at the same time the opposite M&T is trying to pull itself apart. At this point much of the load is being taken by the pieces of the tenon behind the oak peg, so if this piece of tenon is too short it can break along the grain.

The easiest way to imagine this is a roof truss with a basic "A" shape, if you place this "A" frame upright on a piece of glass and press down on the tip of the A. The frame will be held together by the cross / horizontal tie (which is holding the two legs of the A from splaying out across the glass). As the top of the "A" is loaded the tenons on the ends of the tie are both being extracted from the mortices, so you are relying on the peg to hold the joint together and by design the timber behind the peg on the tenon.

Loading can be caused by wind or static load (heavy snow for example). Excessive shrinkage and poorly executed joint carpentry could load a joint and draw boring too.

The main messages of the glazing talk at the weekend were:
accuracy of joinery making it difficult to fit the glazing in the first place. I don't think you have a problem here as your frame looks more like cabinet making standard than framing

choice of timber - frames are being made from very green oak rather than oak that has been sat around for a few years to allow the cell structure to harden.

heat and ventilation - most people choose lots of glass in timber frames, which looks good but can lead to excessive heat build up. Don't overheat the frame within the first few years, allow the timber to shrink gradually and ensure good ventilation....keep those roof vents open

the design for shrinkage talk reiterated the use of oak that had had time to "harden" which reduces shrinkage and timber placement within frames to avoid known timber shrinkage characteristics from interfering with the building as it ages