Hybrid Wedgie Sled

[sploo]

I've just started woodturning, and my long term goal is to make segmented bowls and vases. A bit of research led me to the Hybrid Wedgie Sled, and the Seg Easy website (http://segeasy.com/).

Based on the instructions, I wanted to create a sled, but given the need for the angle setting wedges (and for the angles to be perfect) I decided it was time to fire up the quattr... errr CNC machine.

I cut the sled, the wedges, and a number of knobs from 1/2" birch ply:

The fences were cut from the same ply, but laminated together for 1" thickness:

My saw is small (an Axminster TS200) and the table slots are very shallow. As a result you really need to put a dado on a sled for the runner (otherwise the runner is too thin), which I did later on the router table (once I'd worked out exactly where I wanted it):

The long rectangles in the first image were intended to be runners, but in the end I went by the instructions and used some oak, with a hole, slot and a screw - it works surprisingly well (you can also see one of the wedges in place, to set the angle between the fences):

I was initially reluctant to mill the slots on the fences (preferring just a couple of holes), but I'm glad I did. As you change the angles of the fences it's useful to be able to slide them towards or away from the blade, to maximise support but also minimise damage to the fences.

Part 2 coming in a mo'...

 

[sploo]

A wedgie sled needs a gauge to help cut segments of the correct length...

This one I made by hand. The slots on the top section were cut between stop blocks on the router table. I made many passes, slowly raising the bit. Note that I used a push stick to control the stock in the region on the bit:

A second, shorter, piece has a hole for a dowel, a hole for a bolt and a slot for a runner:

Parts loosely fitted:

Construction finished. For the runner I used a short piece of HDPE plastic that I'd previously milled to the right width for the saw's left slot:

I added some measurement lines, then a couple of coats of varnish and some wax:

 

[sploo]

Extra notes:

The sled instructions show cutting the slot in the middle of the table saw runner, but in one of Jerry Bennett's videos he advises cutting the slot to one side - such that one face of the runner is your reference face and the screw causes the opposite (thinner) side to flex and push the reference face of the runner against the table saw slot.

You're also supposed to add a zero clearance chamfered strip to help the pieces move away from the blade (and no doubt, help get a cleaner cut). I haven't made that yet, as I need to think about how that's going to work with the TS200.

I did cut a test ring, but only afterwards realised that the stock I used wasn't square. The segments fit together nearly perfectly (great!) but the ring isn't particularly flat. A promising start though.

 

[giantbeat]

ohhh thats seriously cute & handy bit of kit, makes me wonder about rigging something up like it for my shells.

and you have a CNC :O .... nice.

 

[sploo]

ohhh thats seriously cute & handy bit of kit, makes me wonder about rigging something up like it for my shells.

and you have a CNC :O .... nice.

Yea, it (the CNC) doesn't get used that often these days, so my biggest problem is rust on the rails as my garage is so damp

It seemed like the right tool for that job though, so I fired her up for the first time in months.

 

[paulrockliffe]

Nice work, you should knock up a batch of these, I'm sure you'd be able to sell them easily!

 

[sploo]

Nice work, you should knock up a batch of these, I'm sure you'd be able to sell them easily!

It occurred to me, but then I'd basically be copying and selling something produced for sale at http://segeasy.com/, which would be a bit morally dubious.

It does also take a reasonable bit of time to set up the cut then clean the parts afterwards (you need to leave tabs on the pieces when cutting, which need removing afterwards), so the actual time+material cost would probably mean I'd struggle to produce something for a cost effective price.

If I had a larger machine, and could set up a custom vacuum holddown pattern to cover the parts then batching lots out (with minimal manual labour) would start to become a bit more realistic.

 

[paulrockliffe]

Fair point on the copyright issue.

On the cutting out and tabs bit, you probably wouldn't lose any of your market, given that you're selling to handy people, if you sold it flat-pack in a ready to assemble form. In fact that might work better as you would get a better margin on your time spent.

If I understand the issue, the bits need to be held in place once you've cut around them, is it possible to use strategically placed screws from underneath so you aren't creating loose parts?

Irrelevant if you can't sell these, but there must be loads of jig type things that would work well as CNC ready to assemble deliver flat kits.

 

[sploo]

Fair point on the copyright issue.

On the cutting out and tabs bit, you probably wouldn't lose any of your market, given that you're selling to handy people, if you sold it flat-pack in a ready to assemble form. In fact that might work better as you would get a better margin on your time spent.

If I understand the issue, the bits need to be held in place once you've cut around them, is it possible to use strategically placed screws from underneath so you aren't creating loose parts?

Irrelevant if you can't sell these, but there must be loads of jig type things that would work well as CNC ready to assemble deliver flat kits.

You can use screws, though the material the screws go through needs to be fixed down too of course. Also - one mistake in placement and you've ruined a cutter. I once clipped an M6 bolt with a 1/4" carbide spiral cutter - the cutter unscrewed the bolt a bit (whilst chewing the steel head), then the machine drove the bit through the bolt. It bent the bolt in two, and threw shards of cutter across the garage. Not recommended!

You do need to keep the parts secure whilst/after cutting - tabs, or onion skinning is common. Vacuum is great for the right types of parts, but expensive, and costly in terms of time for one-off jobs.

I have thought before about making and selling jigs - even as simple as kitchen worktop jigs or circle cutting jigs. The problem is that without a limited business you'd have to run as a sole trader (in the UK). That means any profit is taxed - hard - so once costs and time are factored in, and the tax disappears, it's actually quite difficult to make things at a price that would sell.

I have done one-offs occasionally for nominal fees (i.e. covering my costs), but the volume required to make a viable business means I'd be working hard (mostly just standing in front of a noisy CNC machine) for a relatively small profit.

It's been a few years since I looked into the tax/legal implications of doing commercial work. It occurred to me at the time that it would make sense to have rules whereby a small new startup (as a sole trader) was allowed to make a couple of £k per year without being taxed - in order to encourage people to have a go at starting a business whilst working another job. I believe there are now rules that mean you can make a bit of cash per year renting out a room (without paying tax), so it's not unprecedented.

 

[giantbeat]

ohhh thats seriously cute & handy bit of kit, makes me wonder about rigging something up like it for my shells.

and you have a CNC :O .... nice.

Yea, it (the CNC) doesn't get used that often these days, so my biggest problem is rust on the rails as my garage is so damp

It seemed like the right tool for that job though, so I fired her up for the first time in months.

my home shop is in my cellar has a similar problem, its not too bad compared to most cellars as its got ventilation front & back (does not small damp but rust develops on tools left) my solution has been damp busters, did a similar thing at my main workshop, ran out of space but there was an old ww2 bobshelter that had been bricked up for 30 years, cleaned it out, was very damp, used damp busting crystals in a few tubs & afew a few months i moved in & made it my office, that was over 10 years ago, i still have 1 tub of damp busters in there, but where i was emptying it weekly at first i now empty it every 6- 8 months.

i have 1 of these "Kampa Damp Buster" the office & i currently have 2 of these in each side of the double cellar, emptying every 3 weeks & its getting better. i don't but the packets of branded cystals as they are silly money & does not last long, its just calcium chloride flakes & you can buy it unbranded in bags of 5kg for about £10

it really helps, in a couple of months my cellar (which i had neglected for the last 2 years) should be loads better & the damp kept under control for a couple of £ a month.

 

[sploo]

ohhh thats seriously cute & handy bit of kit, makes me wonder about rigging something up like it for my shells.

and you have a CNC :O .... nice.

Yea, it (the CNC) doesn't get used that often these days, so my biggest problem is rust on the rails as my garage is so damp

It seemed like the right tool for that job though, so I fired her up for the first time in months.

my home shop is in my cellar has a similar problem, its not too bad compared to most cellars as its got ventilation front & back (does not small damp but rust develops on tools left) my solution has been damp busters, did a similar thing at my main workshop, ran out of space but there was an old ww2 bobshelter that had been bricked up for 30 years, cleaned it out, was very damp, used damp busting crystals in a few tubs & afew a few months i moved in & made it my office, that was over 10 years ago, i still have 1 tub of damp busters in there, but where i was emptying it weekly at first i now empty it every 6- 8 months.

i have 1 of these "Kampa Damp Buster" the office & i currently have 2 of these in each side of the double cellar, emptying every 3 weeks & its getting better. i don't but the packets of branded cystals as they are silly money & does not last long, its just calcium chloride flakes & you can buy it unbranded in bags of 5kg for about £10

it really helps, in a couple of months my cellar (which i had neglected for the last 2 years) should be loads better & the damp kept under control for a couple of £ a month.

That's an interesting solution - I wasn't aware of it. The problem with my garage is that it's hole(ier) than the Pope, and leakier than a bad sports team's defence. It essentially ends up at ambient inside regardless, so with flakes or a dehumidifier I'd just be trying to dry the universe :wink:

 

[paulrockliffe]

I think there's a £1000 a year trading profit allowance now too so you could make £1000 before having to enter Self Assessment and pay tax.

You could reduce taxable profit to some extend by investing profit in new kit and equipment to a certain extent, that could get you to the point where you have enough income to justify a ltd company. The costs aren't huge and the admin isn't as bad as people make out if you're organised. You would need to be careful around what is owned in a personal and business capacity though; anything you own now could be sold to the business and the income wouldn't be taxable so long as it was at appropriate market rates, anything you've offset against business profits would already be business assets.

You could charge the business rent of your garage too and that would let you use the £1,000 rental allowance I think too.

 

[sploo]

I think there's a £1000 a year trading profit allowance now too so you could make £1000 before having to enter Self Assessment and pay tax.

You could reduce taxable profit to some extend by investing profit in new kit and equipment to a certain extent, that could get you to the point where you have enough income to justify a ltd company. The costs aren't huge and the admin isn't as bad as people make out if you're organised. You would need to be careful around what is owned in a personal and business capacity though; anything you own now could be sold to the business and the income wouldn't be taxable so long as it was at appropriate market rates, anything you've offset against business profits would already be business assets.

You could charge the business rent of your garage too and that would let you use the £1,000 rental allowance I think too.

Interesting (on the trading profit allowance). I'll have to look that up, thanks.

I've come up against the other issues of personal vs business before when I last looked.

The problem is that I really need a "dormant" ltd company; whereby I may only produce and sell something every few years, but not have to do paperwork or tax returns when nothing's happening. Essentially it's that grey area where I'd like to occasionally knock something out and sell it for a bit of cash, but without falling foul of tax rules. Obviously I could become a Monaco resident and then just not have to pay tax, but that's not for us "little people" :|

 

[paulrockliffe]

The ltd company doesn't have to do anything, you just have to submit annual returns to companies house and HMRC. There's a cost to registering the company, I don't know if there is an ongoing cost though. I'd think registering it as dormant in between periods would be a hassle and may cost more.

For something relatively simple like you describe, you should be able to setup some simple templates for submissions in Excel some template minutes for your annual meetings etc and then just amend each year in a few minutes. So long as the business doesn't go beyond you buying and selling stuff it shouldn't be overly complex. Certainly no more work than programming that CNC!

The one thing to consider with tax if you're doing occasional work is that if you load the overheads fairly, but that still means the business isn't running at a profit and you're not trying to make the business profitable in its own right, HMRC might decide it's not a business. Largely because it's not. it sounds like you understand that, but with a Ltd it's really important that you treat it as a separate legal entity that stands on its own two feet. You could look at charging things like rent only in periods where you're doing work though to cover this off. Just make the expenditure match the reality of the business and you'll be OK.

 

[sploo]

The occasional work/profitability thing is what stopped me last time. I wouldn't (certainly at this stage) be looking to form a profitable business; just to be able to make and sell a few items (e.g. jigs/template) for a small profit. I suspect that would then come under sole trader rules; which means I'd get taxed at my current rate (as a result of my main job).

That said, I've just looked at the trading profit allowance, and that seems ideal - being able to make £1000 in a year without declaring it would more than cover anything I'd likely do in terms of small CNC runs. One thing that isn't clear to me was whether that's £1000 of turnover, or £1000 of profit. If it's the latter then that would be great - though I understand it doesn't come into force until April 2017.

EDIT: A quick bit of reading up indicates it's £1000 of turnover. I.e. selling something for £10 that cost you £7 (i.e. £3 profit) would be recorded as £10. If you went over £1000 you could chose to go a different route and just pay tax on the profits.

 

[Wildman]

just a thought on this as I have not seen it before. maybe you are in danger of overcomplicating things. Make a sled with one fixed guide at right angles for general work then have a second movable guide. Set the angles with standard available anywhere drawing set squares, 30-60-90 and 45-45-90 does not have to be centered for it to work.

30 deg gives 12 segments
45 deg gives 8 segments
60 deg gives 6 segments.
Sorted unless I am missing something.

cut on alternate guides without flipping the timber.

For work holding on CNC maybe this will help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MP5wE5E9Ow

 

[sploo]

just a thought on this as I have not seen it before. maybe you are in danger of overcomplicating things. Make a sled with one fixed guide at right angles for general work then have a second movable guide. Set the angles with standard available anywhere drawing set squares, 30-60-90 and 45-45-90 does not have to be centered for it to work.

30 deg gives 12 segments
45 deg gives 8 segments
60 deg gives 6 segments.
Sorted unless I am missing something.

cut on alternate guides without flipping the timber.

For work holding on CNC maybe this will help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MP5wE5E9Ow

The issue is with "one fixed guide at right angles for general work then have a second movable guide". By having two movable guides they can be adjusted so they are both (near as makes no difference) at the same angle to the blade - that will give "traditional" wedges.

You can however skew the guides one way or the other (but maintain the angle between them). That results in the same number of segments for a ring, but generates skewed wedges. It's difficult to explain without a visual, but one of Jerry Bennett's "Segmentology" videos covers it. He's the originator of this sled design.

Very nice build on that YouTube link. It's actually quite easy to not be precise with the CNC; even a tiny bit of movement in a workpiece will screw things up (especially when doing cuts with multiple bits, or when flipping a part).

I have used tape, but generally found it messy (probably wasn't using the right stuff), and I've usually done work that takes bigger, more aggressive cuts - which is not well suited to tape. For a bunch of smaller parts it would indeed be a good idea though.

 

[Wildman]

I appreciate skewed would look like a ratchet inside and out but just a little extra turning required.

 

[topgun000]

would it be possible to send me your dxf so I can cut my own

 

[sploo]

would it be possible to send me your dxf so I can cut my own

Sure. It doesn't look as though I can attach files to a PM, and as you only have one post so far I don't think you can write PM's yourself.

I'll PM you my email address so you can get in contact, and I'll email the files.

Caveats of personal use only, and no "warranty" or guarantees of quality or suitably apply of course :wink: