How would you rate the UK's handling of this pandemic?

[D_W]

(Aside from the huge number of infections here, we have another issue that's accounted for a large chunk of the death rates - nursing homes. A first world problem when there's a pandemic, having the economic ability to move the elderly out of the household and into commercialized care on a large scale. Covid doesn't really consider how nice the surroundings are in a care home, just how close together people are and what their age and condition are.)

 

[Jake]

The death rate and infection rate aren't related to the health systems, they're related to the culture before people make their way into the health systems.

The infection rate clearly isn't, that is all about the efficacy of social controls. The death rate is very correlated with health systems (but infection rates feed into that, in terms of how capacities are stretched).

 

[julianf]

I guess the number to look at is fatalities as a function of infections.

But still, its a case of liars, damn liars, and statisticians -

You would imagine, for example, that a disease that kills elderly would show countries where everyone dies young (of something else), in quite a favourable position, even though they probably are not the best of places to live!

 

[AJB Temple]

On the radio yesterday, I was listening to an older lady being negative about Boris. She said, re C19, "we expect our prime minister to have foresight". She appeared to be single issue (covid) focussed, and unwilling to accept that the man has a wide range of responsibilities or that he could not see into the future.

The blame game achieves nothing. The media is so polarised, and so engaged in analysis by hindsight, that it is hard to find much of value on which to form a view. Certainly the endless statistics are pointless such as daily cases and daily deaths to the exact numeric. I get a sense that we are looking at the trees but not the wood.

 

[julianf]

The blame game achieves nothing.

You have to have accountability to escape incompetence. Without accountability (which is really just a more "adult" form of blame in negative situations) you just get sucked into a never ending cycle of populism.

 

[Blackswanwood]

No need to worry as help is on hand ...

Happy Mondays star Bez in bid to rival Joe Wicks with lockdown fitness classes Happy Mondays star Bez in bid to rival Joe Wicks with lockdown fitness classes

 

[Jake]

I get a sense that we are looking at the trees but not the wood.

No-one can predict how it will play out eventually, but there are countries who have a massive lead in fewer excess deaths (and no-one is counting or taking any account at all of the other effects a disease that has lots of signs that it may have chronic but not fatal outcomes could turn out to have).

 

[andy hamilton]

The obvious is too little to late, missed opportunities and shambolic. Is this the fault of this government, no it would have been the same with any government because the way the system is setup.

First mistake, forgetting we are an island nation and not slamming the borders shut as soon as the virus was on the horizon.

Next mistake, being caught with your pants down. Having gone through other issues like F&M, birdflu etc etc the chances of a human virus were high and even Mr Gates pre warned the planet yet the stockpile of PPE for medical staff and carers was rock bottom, too much cost cutting or just ignorance?

Then too many cooks in the kitchen, complicated lines of command and not understandng the public. Result confusion, wrong advice and to little enforcement so the public become lost sheep. Then all the sillyness like if you are shielding then your partner can still go too work and bring the virus home.

Lastly there is a vacine and they drag there heels, to much talking and not enough action. Why not setup an NHS shop on Amazon and let the doctors and such order vacines on Amazon, their distribution and logistics are good and they would have been injecting the next day.

We don't know that it would have been the same with any government, it can't be proved one way or the other so it's irrelevant. The government in charge had full responsibility and made a pig's muck of it, even if we disregard the way they shovelled taxpayers'money to completely unsuitable companies who made an even bigger pig's muck of it. Despite government incompetence and lies, I believe the latest lockdown was the only option and I'm observing the rules for my own health and for others. I neither want to catch Covid or give it to anyone else

 

[billw]

You want to live under that kind of government?

If you asked poorest people in the U.K. if they’d trade their “freedoms” for becoming middle class and having some wealth I wonder what they’d say.

I think some of them are so entrenched in the life of cheating the system and cash in hand work and whatever, the result might not be so clear.

 

[Cozzer]

Considering at least 75% of transmission occurs within the house, how exactly do you think shutting more shops would help?

How do you think it enters the house in the first place, then? Down the chimney like Father Christmas?
From meeting people outside the house, not observing the rules.
I take it you're against pubs, theatres and restaurants being closed as well?

 

[julianf]

If you asked poorest people in the U.K. if they’d trade their “freedoms” for becoming middle class and having some wealth I wonder what they’d say.

I think some of them are so entrenched in the life of cheating the system and cash in hand work and whatever, the result might not be so clear.

That sort of implies, to me at least, that the middle class is not "cheating the system and cash in hand work and whatever"

: )

Maybe they just have accountants to sanitise it a bit more, however, I suspect an all seeing god would find they were no less culpable.

 

[Lons]

Jabob said
Amongst other things Labour would have brought in broadband for all. Heavily derided at the time but now top of the agenda for education and public service information.
Besides that there's really no doubt that Johnson has drastically failed . Easy to blame blokes in queues but the buck stops at the top.

The above is exactly what you said in full, the implication being that broadband for all would now be in place - Of course it wouldn't!

In reply to your second point I said "your statement suggests that each and every one of us is blameless" note the word SUGGEST which is exactly the way it reads.

 

[D_W]

The infection rate clearly isn't, that is all about the efficacy of social controls. The death rate is very correlated with health systems (but infection rates feed into that, in terms of how capacities are stretched).

The death rate as a percentage of infections isn't particularly accurate in organized countries (in terms of trying to judge health system efficacy). What you can gauge is the number of patients who are turned away from ICUs, I guess, but a high death rate per confirmed case is more likely to indicate underreporting of covid cases (or people with symptoms who don't feel that ill refusing to go get tested).

 

[Rorschach]

How do you think it enters the house in the first place, then? Down the chimney like Father Christmas?
From meeting people outside the house, not observing the rules.
I take it you're against pubs, theatres and restaurants being closed as well?

It gets caught be visiting other houses.

I am following the data and the data showed that covid "secure" places like pubs and restaurants were responsible for less than 3% of transmission. The more you stop people meeting in "safe" places the more they meet in their homes. It's not rocket surgery you know.

 

[Rorschach]

Jabob said
Amongst other things Labour would have brought in broadband for all. Heavily derided at the time but now top of the agenda for education and public service information.
Besides that there's really no doubt that Johnson has drastically failed . Easy to blame blokes in queues but the buck stops at the top.

The above is exactly what you said in full, the implication being that broadband for all would now be in place - Of course it wouldn't!

In reply to your second point I said "your statement suggests that each and every one of us is blameless" note the word SUGGEST which is exactly the way it reads.

Stop using his own documented words against him, it's not fair, Trump said so.

 

[Rorschach]

I guess the number to look at is fatalities as a function of infections.

But still, its a case of liars, damn liars, and statisticians -

You would imagine, for example, that a disease that kills elderly would show countries where everyone dies young (of something else), in quite a favourable position, even though they probably are not the best of places to live!

It does, look at the deaths rates in countries in Sub Saharan Africa. I actually had someone tell me we should follow what they are doing because their death rates were so low. I pointed out a disease where the average age of death is 83 isn't going to do much damage in a county where the life expectancy is under 50.

 

[RobinBHM]

The one promoted by the approved political party.

bit of a smug answer, Im sure the anti lockdowners will like it

the whole world has chosen social distancing and restrictions in activity to reduce spread.
No government has chosen herd immunity as the option

 

[RobinBHM]

And asteroids, and UFOs and volcanoes (OK, that's us over here), etc. If the government spent enough money to be prepared for all of them, them same whiners going at it now would complain about the wasted money and resources when "you could be giving that money to people who need it right now".

I dont think so, Im sure most people would have approved of a properly funded NHS, not one stripped to the bone.

 

[RobinBHM]

They have also done some things well - eg: nightingale hospital construction

Propaganda exercise -straight out of Cummings game planning.

look at the claimed time to build: 9 days
look at the Chinese claimed time to build: 9 days

Nightingale hospitals dont have any staff, so they are useless.

 

[Jacob]

Jabob said
Amongst other things Labour would have brought in broadband for all. Heavily derided at the time but now top of the agenda for education and public service information.
Besides that there's really no doubt that Johnson has drastically failed . Easy to blame blokes in queues but the buck stops at the top.

The above is exactly what you said in full, the implication being that broadband for all would now be in place - Of course it wouldn't!

I didn't say it would now be in place - but the project could have been a year further on than now

In reply to your second point I said "your statement suggests that each and every one of us is blameless" note the word SUGGEST which is exactly the way it reads.

Your inference, not what I said at all.
Of course we all bear our share but the buck still stops at the top.
The likelihood is that as Johnson steps away from the chaos of his making he will blame everybody and everything; the EU itself, the virus, Trump, Corbyn, the science, aliens from outer space.
Ultimately he will blame the electorate; all those who voted for him, and so will I!