How to make French cherrywood table fit for everyday use?

[matthew99]

Hi

Does anyone else have the same problem as we have with our dining table? - it needs protecting ALL the time and never functions as a table without a cover on it. We have a table protector plus a table cloth on top. Now we have knocked the dining room through to the kitchen and we need it to be more utilitarian.

This is mad! We have an attractive table that no-one ever sees. This just isn't the table for our kitchen / diner, we don't think it's unreasonable to place items on a table without a couple of layers of protection. Such tables are near impossible to sell on FleaBay and we will still need to buy another.

My conclusion is that we should recoat the table with a more durable finish. I'm considering using Le Tonkenois which I have sucessfully used before on flooring, yachts and external woodwork. I like using it because it provides a high quality finish after several coats easily applied. I know this does sound drastic given that the table is immaculate and has hardly been used, but therein lies the heart of the problem in that this table does not get used.

I'm assuming that the current finish is some kind of French polish (shellac) and that it must be removed prior to re-varnishing. I intend trying experimental test pieces using the back of the removable legs and the extended table insert.

Am i completely barmy attempting this? My defence is that the table could be made of concrete for all anyone sees of it and we're unlikely to make the situation worse.

• Scraping might be fine for the flast areas but will not deal with the detailed area, so:
• How do I chemically remove the existing finish?
• Will the chemicals damage any glue?
• Are there any other suggestions or experiences readers would share with me

Many thanks in anticipation, over to you ...

Matthew

 

[Droogs]

Check to see if it is a shellac finish and if it is then just give it a rub down with 0000 wire wool and then wipe down with a tack rag. Then for a quick and easy fix use halfords 2 pack car paint laquer to go over the top. Apply 4 or 5 thin coats allowing to dry inbetween each and then leave for a week and just give a polish up with car polish. You'll get a high gloss shine that would look great on thish top and have a very durable heat resistant finish. the shellac won't react with the laquer as long as you've given it a good clean and rub down before spraying.

 

[matthew99]

Thanks for the quick response Droogs,

Is there an easy method to check if it's shellac?

From your reply I'm guessing that I would have to send it away for spraying, i.e. not something I could do at home?

Thanks

 

[ED65]

Is there an easy method to check if it's shellac?

Solubility in alcohol or meths.

Assuming it is finished in shellac to get this table usable is actually reasonably easy, all you need to do is apply a little varnish on top of it. Varnish is regularly applied on top of shellac as part of routine finishing so there are no compatibility worries, you just need to ensure to remove any wax or furniture polish from the surface before you begin. Also a good idea to lightly scuff the surface, just enough to take the shine off.

The varnish should be poly ideally, but nearly anything will do to be honest as long as it's thinned with white spirit which indicates that it's oil-based. I suggest you dilute the varnish to turn it into wiping varnish, so that's between 1:3 and 1:1 depending on how thin you'd like it to be, then wiping on a half-dozen coats.

In warmer weather this might only take you three days but expect it to take longer than a week in colder, damper weather which will slow the drying time.

You only need to do the top, the legs etc. can remain as they are.

 

[Droogs]

No need to send it away. Just buy the spray tins from halfords for car touch up, what you need to get is the clear laquer that is put on top of the coloured basecoat. 2 tins will be enough to do this table. Just apply in even "mist" ie very light coats and build up the layers until you have the surface you want. the secret is to keep your hand moving and to start the spray before your hand gets to the edge of the table and release the button after it has passed the edge on the other side of the board. Also work from left to right and then as you move down alternate the next pass right to left etc.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Matthew, you don't say what the problem is that you are having, apart from a very small chip on the bottom right edge it looks pretty much perfect and you did say " the table is immaculate " . Are you getting blooming stains from wet glasses or hot mugs? Or is it scratching easily? Also, do you know how old the table is? It looks like a reproduction table to me so I would assume it has been finished with some sort of lacquer. I would not start putting solvents or spraying lacquer cans over it until you have established what is on there. If you end up having to have it re-finished professionally I doubt you would get any change out of £500 so if I were you I would proceed with caution.

 

[matthew99]

Hi Mr Percy

I have another two smaller coffee tables similar to this and they have ended up with very small scratches on the surface caused by placing items on the table. They are 5 year old reproduction tables.

We haven't actually tested these items to any kind of use, and that's the point, we daren't use them as tables. We know a coffee mug will cause a ring, a foot resting briefly on the coffee table will result on a scuff marks. Must we go round with mats and covers over them?

Are we being far too cautious with a polished surface - we have a simple oak blocked worktop from Ikea that I varnished and it is perfect for everyday use. It withstands any amount of hot dishes and mugs (haven't actually tried it with a caserole dish straight out of the oven) without staining. Any marks there are don't show up and the wear isn't apparent after 5 years use.

So, I guess I should refine my questions:

• Do I have to protect these tables and is that what others do?
• If no protection and in use, do I have to take to a polisher every year or so to take out the marks and blemishes
• Can I get the nearer to the same kind of durability from this Cherrywood table as I do from the Oak blockwood worktops?
• How can I identify the finish on this item, do I just wipe a little meths on a hidden area and see if the cloth comes back with a wooden colour?

I hope this post doesn't cloud the issue and thanks for all the patient replies.

Regards

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Being five years old I would say that it is almost certain that you do not have a french polished table, you can test this by wiping a meths rag over an inconspicuous area. If you want to keep them pristine then you will have to use matts and covers. There is an odd thing with polished surfaces, if you put a hundred scratches in it you will see every one of them but if you put one hundred thousand scratches in the surface you will not see any of them. Ethyl acetate will go some way to restoring a one pack lacquer finish, it will remove blooms and light scratches. http://www.konig-uk.co.uk/konigshop/ko3 ... -p-47.html
However if you want a surface that you do not want to treat with kid gloves you already have the answer with Le Tonkenois but you will need to completely strip the lacquer and re-stain.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Do yourself a favour - whack a coat of microcrystalline wax on it and use. It's only a table, not an altar. Save yourself the effort and the stress.

 

[Harbo]

A friend had a very "precious" dining table and covered it with a sheet of glass which showed all the woods glory but very easy to clean.

Rod

 

[Chrispy]

In some ways I think there is nothing sadder than an immaculate table top, I like to see that my furniture has been used, looked after yes but used as well, as Phil.p has said wax it and use it, the wax should take and repair the scratches as they develop just use a saucer for your cup of tea!

 

[matthew99]

Thanks Chrispy and all for their contributions
I like to see signs of weathering which indicates the table is being used but not however coffee stains and scratched indicating a lack of care.
The glass top idea doesn't appeal, to me it's making it more like a museum piece which it's not. This leaves us with:

1. Ethyl acetate will go some way to restoring a one pack lacquer finish, it will remove blooms and light scratches.
2. Halfords 2 pack car paint
3. Wipe varnish thinned with white spirit
4. microcrystalline wax
5. strip the lacquer and re-stain with le tonkenois

I think I'd like to go down the path of least resistance and use the microcrystalline wax, take the covers off and see what happens. If this doesn't work we can try one of the other alternatives.

Many thanks again for all your contributions

Matthew

 

[ED65]

I doubt you'll be happy with just waxing this, wax provides very little in the way of additional protection to furniture. Wax is basically a polishing agent, nothing more.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

" ... wax provides very little in the way of additional protection to furniture. Wax is basically a polishing agent, nothing more."
You should tell the British Museum.

 

[ED65]

If they're the same as The Wallace Collection they won't use wax any more 8)

Besides, the context is completely different between something sitting on display and furniture seeing regular use.

 

[custard]

My conclusion is that we should recoat the table with a more durable finish. I'm considering using Le Tonkenois which I have sucessfully used before on flooring, yachts and external woodwork. I like using it because it provides a high quality finish after several coats easily applied. I know this does sound drastic given that the table is immaculate and has hardly been used, but therein lies the heart of the problem in that this table does not get used.

I'm assuming that the current finish is some kind of French polish (shellac) and that it must be removed prior to re-varnishing. I intend trying experimental test pieces using the back of the removable legs and the extended table insert.

Am i completely barmy attempting this?

In a word, yes!

It's a reasonable bet that your table is a factory made item using commercial veneers, these veneers start off at 0.6mm thick and after finish sanding they are now about 0.4mm thick, so there's very little margin for error. The design means you've also got loads of tightly adjacent contrary running grain, edge mouldings, string inlay, and the corner pegs to deal with. Cherry has a tight grain, but it doesn't have no grain, so no matter how meticulous you think you're being there will still be traces of the original sprayed lacquer mixed with stripper left in the surface which will royally screw up any almost any subsequent finish you choose to apply. Try and deal with that by getting stuck in with a scraper or 80 grit paper and, unless you've done this job before, you'll be through to the substrate in no time at all. And even assuming you make it this far without mishap, the bomb proof finish you're looking for is effectively encapsulating the table in a thick layer of two-pack plastic, and that is not a good look, think cheap pub tables and shudder!

The problem is that factory sprayed lacquer looks fabulous in the showroom, but it only goes downhill from there, lacquer has a life span of around about twenty years so you're actually right to be super careful about damaging the table.

My suggestion is either carry on as you are with your careful regime of protection, or let your hair down and use the table in a more relaxed manner accepting it'll soon start to show battle scars and only then think about re-finishing.

When you get to that stage you've four options, get it refinished professionally (it'll cost more than the table is worth but if there are matching chairs-hard to be sure from the photo- they remain useable), refinish it yourself when you've nothing to lose, replace with solid wood furniture, or come to an independent maker (like me!) who will at least make and use thicker, saw cut veneers that can stand a few rounds of re-finishing.

Good luck!

 

[Alexam]

Harbo has beat me to it. I was going to suggest glass, possibly in two sheets rather than one as the size and weight may be difficult for one to manage. My parents had a very large dining table and they had a glass top produced by a glazing company. It has rounded edges, but gave full protection and years later, although a few scratches were on the glass, the table was untouched.

We still covered it whan in use, but otherwise the top could be seen. If you Speak with a glazing company and ask for a price for that size, you may be pleasantly surprised.

Malcolm

 

[AndyT]

If they're the same as The Wallace Collection they won't use wax any more 8)

Besides, the context is completely different between something sitting on display and furniture seeing regular use.

A bit off topic, but could you say a bit more about what you mean?

My quick search just found these examples of the Wallace Collection staff saying that synthetic microcrystalline wax is a good thing to use on metal objects

http://www.wallacecollection.org/bl...vation-of-firearms-from-the-oriental-armoury/

http://www.wallacecollection.org/blog/2013/08/10-steps-towards-the-care-of-metal-collections/

 

[ED65]

A bit off topic, but could you say a bit more about what you mean?

My quick search just found these examples of the Wallace Collection staff saying that synthetic microcrystalline wax is a good thing to use on metal objects

Those links were very interesting, thanks for that. It's so odd as what they say seems to be directly counter to what I was told some years ago. I got it directly from one of the conservators returning something to display, so I took the opportunity to ask them some technical questions.

They said that they don't use wax any more on steel as it doesn't provide a long-term protection and were now using an "acrylic varnish" (this might have been shorthand for the layman and they were actually referring to a lacquer as we would understand it). Plus I know from other reading in conversation that broadly institutions are moving away from wax for other reasons as well, one of which is buildup in recesses with successive applications.

Anyway back to furniture, as a solution to clouding or white stains specifically.

Wax provides little additional protection from liquid water. It's better than nothing certainly, you can see the improved beading as soon as you've applied it, which gives the opportunity to get a cloth and wipe up any accidental spills. But it does much less for heat and water, and doesn't add any scratch resistance. All wax coatings will also naturally wear off and need topping up.

Varnish on the other hand provides permanent resistance to liquid water, at best you can leave spills to just evaporate for all the difference it'll make to the wood. And additionally it'll add greatly to its scratch resistance. So it's a fix, not a Band-Aid