How to make a round dining table with hand tools?

[rogxwhit]

The drawer aperture in the rail weakens the rail to some extent. But the key consideration is the vertical depth of the joint where the rail ends meet the legs - that's what takes the stresses of moving the table / people kicking the table legs. You might even arch the rails down towards the joints to deepen them at those critical junctures, whilst still keeping thigh-space between chair and table rail in the middle section. But that's not a must.

 

[tibi]

The drawer aperture in the rail weakens the rail to some extent. But the key consideration is the vertical depth of the joint where the rail ends meet the legs - that's what takes the stresses of moving the table / people kicking the table legs. You might even arch the rails down towards the joints to deepen them at those critical junctures, whilst still keeping thigh-space between chair and table rail in the middle section. But that's not a must.

Thanks, what hegiht of the rail do you suggest as sufficient? I would like to use a 12 mm mortice chisel for the mortices and the legs will be 50x 50 mm and they will be tapered to 30x30 mm at the bottom. Also, the overhang of the round section over the square base needs to be minimal as it would cover the drawer when being open. The table will be 125 cm in diameter and will be 75 cm high.

Should there be a horizontal bearer just behind the rail with the drawer opening to support the drawer? I assume that the thickness of the rail is not enough. Or just side bottom runners are enough to support it? The bottom of the drawer will be 6 mm plywood.

 

[rogxwhit]

Just maximise the rail height according to your estimation of the differences between (in descending order) table top height from floor / table top thickness / rail height / sitter's thigh thickness / chair seat height from floor (with any uphostery on the seat compressed by the sitter as it would be in use). So there's a bit of guesswork to do with who might sit at the table. Those of more sturdy build might need to have their chairs a bit further back - I can't be prescriptive but I've named the parameters.

Work out the vertical rail dimensions to suit the overall dimensions of the table as described, and keep the drawer aperture in that one drawer rail in from the ends a bit to avoid compromising the wood strength near the joint area. These are key. Then work back to how the drawer is supported and slides. But that's a secondary story, and not crucial at this stage ... it can be left aside for a while.

 

[rogxwhit]

Sizes of mortice width & leg section sound fine!

 

[Jacob]

Just maximise the rail height according to your estimation of the differences between (in descending order) table top height from floor / table top thickness / rail height / sitter's thigh thickness / chair seat height from floor (with any uphostery on the seat compressed by the sitter as it would be in use). So there's a bit of guesswork to do with who might sit at the table. Those of more sturdy build might need to have their chairs a bit further back - I can't be prescriptive but I've named the parameters.

Work out the vertical rail dimensions to suit the overall dimensions of the table as described, and keep the drawer aperture in that one drawer rail in from the ends a bit to avoid compromising the wood strength near the joint area. These are key. Then work back to how the drawer is supported and slides. But that's a secondary story, and not crucial at this stage ... it can be left aside for a while.

A typical chair is 18" and knee room required is typically 6" which gives an apron height from floor of 24". Typical table top is 30" from floor so you have 6" to play with; top/aprons/rails/ drawers etc.
If chairs too high, or thighs too fat, then swap the chairs for lower ones - or make the table higher.

 

[rogxwhit]

Most people like the chairs they have already, and nobody mentioned knees. With tables, knee-space is a horizontal consideration. In that light I think that we might have a case here for the use of slimming tablets and / or adjustable-height table legs, then? Because there's no such thing as 'typical'. We're starting from scratch.

 

[Jacob]

Most people like the chairs they have already, and nobody mentioned knees. With tables, knee-space is a horizontal consideration. In that light I think that we might have a case here for the use of slimming tablets and / or adjustable-height table legs, then? Because there's no such thing as 'typical'. We're starting from scratch.

Ok, "average" then. n.b. It's easier to swap a chair than alter the dimensions of a table. Working to an 18" chair height will work 99.99% of the time as that's the height which most people already have.

 

[Jacob]

Most people like the chairs they have already, and nobody mentioned knees. With tables, knee-space is a horizontal consideration. In that light I think that we might have a case here for the use of slimming tablets and / or adjustable-height table legs, then? Because there's no such thing as 'typical'. We're starting from scratch.

You could measure all your clients chairs and thigh dimensions and ask them about any particularly fat thighed visitors expected, or just use normal standard measurements.
Most chairs are 17 to 18" high.
Most dining tables are 29 to 30" high
An apron minimum height about 24" will be fine for most chairs/thighs/knees.

 

[Jacob]

.........

Should there be a horizontal bearer just behind the rail with the drawer opening to support the drawer? I assume that the thickness of the rail is not enough. Or just side bottom runners are enough to support it? The bottom of the drawer will be 6 mm plywood.

1st rule of the design process is to look at stuff. 2nd; copy what works.
Have a look at some tables with drawers.
The rails below and above a drawer are usually quite wide horizontally to give them added strength, but there are lots of variations.
Essential reading and best book on the subject: Ernest Joyce "The Technique of Furniture Making"

 

[tibi]

1st rule of the design process is to look at stuff. 2nd; copy what works.
Have a look at some tables with drawers.
The rails below and above a drawer are usually quite wide horizontally to give them added strength, but there are lots of variations.
Essential reading and best book on the subject: Ernest Joyce "The Technique of Furniture Making"

Thank you Jacob, I will look up that book on Google. I do not have similar tables to look at them in person. Modern furniture uses mostly hardware runners, which have a slightly different construction.

 

[Jacob]

....... Modern furniture uses mostly hardware runners, which have a slightly different construction.

Actually very different.
It's worth doing a bit of research rather than trying to design things from scratch. May look like a simple problem but often quite difficult to arrive at simple solutions.
Or to put it another way; simple solutions are often deceptively simple.

 

[tibi]

Actually very different.
It's worth doing a bit of research rather than trying to design things from scratch. May look like a simple problem but often quite difficult to arrive at simple solutions.
Or to put it another way; simple solutions are often deceptively simple.

I did already some research, but I only found drawer construction for end tables. My dining table will have 80x80 cm square base. And the drawer will be only max 40 cm wide and centered. So the sliders and kickers will not touch side aprons and probably need to be mortised into front and back aprons. Also I need to figure out if I must do a rectangular opening in the front apron for drawer by ripping and glueing or I can just make U Shaped opening, but the drawer would slide on the top against table top which might cause trouble due to wood movement.

After the long search, I have found this construction of the drawer framing, that I need for my round table
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/aw-extra-121312-greene-and-greene-style-hall-table/

 

[Jacob]

..... So the sliders and kickers will not touch side aprons and probably need to be mortised into front and back aprons.

Yep thats a way to do it!

Also I need to figure out if I must do a rectangular opening in the front apron for drawer ...

Yes . The top and bottom rails make the structure in place of a solid apron. The whole of the table except the top you treat as an item with runners stub tenoned to the apron front and back and working drawers to fit. Then plant the top on, with buttons to hold it.
It's quite common commercially to make table bottoms but with optional tops to fit or even change

After the long search, I have found this construction of the drawer framing, that I need for my round table
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/aw-extra-121312-greene-and-greene-style-hall-table/

Greene & Greene very fussy!
Tables with drawers set in the apron the same way are very common and very traditional. End drawers often set between the legs, side drawers set in cut-out in the apron, and various combinations along the same lines.

 

[rogxwhit]

With your design, the drawer front is somewhat buried back from the edge of the top, and unless you want to pull it right out which brings the fiddle of slotting it back in later, you will only sensibly be able to readily access the front 5/8 or so of the drawer. That's not a no-no, it's just how it is.

I've often used the underside of a table top as the kicker for a drawer by the way, and it's worked fine. The prize is a little more drawer depth. Something suggests to me that in any case I would run the grain of the top parallel to that of the drawer front - somehow it would seem more natural that way ...

And you may fix the top with buttons that engage in slots in 2 opposing rails ...?

 

[tibi]

With your design, the drawer front is somewhat buried back from the edge of the top, and unless you want to pull it right out which brings the fiddle of slotting it back in later, you will only sensibly be able to readily access the front 5/8 or so of the drawer. That's not a no-no, it's just how it is.

I've often used the underside of a table top as the kicker for a drawer by the way, and it's worked fine. The prize is a little more drawer depth. Something suggests to me that in any case I would run the grain of the top parallel to that of the drawer front - somehow it would seem more natural that way ...

And you may fix the top with buttons that engage in slots in 2 opposing rails ...?

My base is 80x80 cm, so my drawer can be theoretically 76 - 78 cm long. I do not need that long drawer. So I can make longer sides of the drawer with false back, that will be 40 - 50 cm deep. Then the sides will support the drawer and false back will give a visual cue that I have pulled it out.

This way I can also add buttons to both side rails and back rail (relative to the drawer front). I can also add the buttons to the front rail, if they will be at the ends of the rail (as the drawer will be in the center). But if only 4 buttons in total (two on each side) is enough, there is no point in creating 8 buttons in total (2 on each side).

 

[rogxwhit]

I'd have 6 buttons myself - 2 + 2 across the grain of the top and 1 + 1 along it. Easy to make, & the top would be better anchored. Anytime the table gets moved, it's quite likely to be lifted by the top ...

 

[tibi]

I'd have 6 buttons myself - 2 + 2 across the grain of the top and 1 + 1 along it. Easy to make, & the top would be better anchored. Anytime the table gets moved, it's quite likely to be lifted by the top ...

Thanks, I will do it that way.