how much do you add on for materials to the customer

[sawdust1]

I was talking to a customer friend today who wanted a new front door, i told her if she gave me the cash i would not put it through my books and add on 10% which i would normally do. After a long discussion she was not convinced that all tradesmen add on a percentage to the cost of the materials.
She thought their maybe a small handling charge and that was all, never heard of a handling charge myself.
I add 20% for anything under £100 and 10% for anything over this.
Surely we get our trade prices so we can add on a percentage for profit otherwise why bother to get trade prices.
Just wondering what other tradesmen do, not just wood related trades but all the others.

 

[marcros]

you absolutely should add on a margin to cover your costs and risks. don't forget, if you supply an item, and it is faulty (for no fault of your own) then it is you that has to return it to the supplier. some of the trade discount is the saving that the merchant makes from not having to deal with consumers, as well as being an incentive to attract your bulk business.

 

[finneyb]

Perhaps you shouldn't discuss detailed pricing with customers

Brian

 

[Sheptonphil]

I was talking to a customer friend today who wanted a new front door, i told her if she gave me the cash i would not put it through my books and add on 10% which i would normally do. After a long discussion she was not convinced that all tradesmen add on a percentage.

My discussion would not have been long on that point. Why do so many employed people treat self employed tradesmen as charities? Let them buy the materials themselves, from wherever they can get the same quality and they would pay far more than a 10% premium and have the hassle of transport and going to fetch it. 10% markup is low in any middle man scenario.

Phil

 

[RobinBHM]

Its best to just give a composite price for materials + labour + margin

If the customer chooses their own material, then its best to let them buy them and price for fitting only (with a suitable margin you feel is aporopriate).

One complication is if you fit something like worktops.....what happens if you cut one wrong!

 

[Wildman]

you may wish to amend your original post. It never ceases to amaze me how many people admit to fraud on a public forum.

 

[AJB Temple]

OP, my thought was the same as Wildmans. I am sure that what you meant but did not express fully was that you were doing a friend a favour and offered to buy the door for her using her money directly, rather than selling her one, for which you proposed to charge a small agency fee to cover your costs of travel and delivery. The agency fee would of course go through your books.

Were you to be considering a mark up in the normal course of business, all of which revenues go through your books, then this would be helpful advice from others. You re buying wholesale as a volume customer and selling retail, which takes account of the value you add through product knowledge, account with supplier, delivery etc. This markup should depend on various factors including competitor prices, and whether or not you expect repeat business. A handling charge might apply as well if the customer had the option to reject you choice of goods, especially if it cost you money to return the item or had to fund re-stocking.

 

[blackrodd]

Here in Sunny Devon, everything has to be cheaper, Same as a couple of other places, with many of those NOT working in local admin living on minimum wages.
When some blokes on here speak of £1500 for a window or £1200 for a door It won't work so well here.
I have a daywork rate for site work, and another one for workshop covering machine wear and tear insurance etc, etc.
Whatever discount I get my materials for is my business, so the customer is not being ripped off when I charge them for the same retail price as they pay anyway, and labour charge at whatever hours at you're rate.
I never work for cash, when work is tight, all money still goes in the bank, If you don't do anything silly, you can't get caught!
I might charge a fiver or tenner for a piece of wood that someone wants, goes into the coffee fund.
Regards Rodders

 

[petermillard]

I charge materials and hardware at cost (inc. VAT, delivery etc...) and rounded up to the nearest fiver. I’m not a retailer and have no interest in becoming one, so when I quote for a job I include enough of my time for acquisition of materials, and quote on an ’all in’ basis; if it’s a new customer then the deposit they pay will more than cover the cost of materials and hardware, and if it's an established customer then I know that they will have settled my invoice long before I need to settle my account with the suppliers.

My overall margins on jobs are usually comfortable enough to allow for any later minor works e.g. to refit/replace hardware that may have failed, and I treat these occasional, brief visits as a valuable way of reconnecting with customers - I have learned over the years, that it is far, far more cost-effective and just better business all round, to keep existing customers happy, and half an hour spent replacing say, a failed hinge at ’my’ expense engenders an extraordinary amount of positive feedback and subsequent recommendations. Similarly, adding £20 to a £200 door without being upfront about it with the customer will produce a disproportionately negative vibe; it may be perfectly reasonable, and it may be good business, but I need neither the 20 quid, or the negativity, personally!

I have a daywork rate for site work, and another one for workshop covering machine wear and tear insurance etc, etc.

Given the economics of your location, I do appreciate that you may need to do this, but with respect, I think this is bad business - your workshop full of equipment doesn't suddenly become cost-free just because you don’t happen to be using it during the onsite days. I base my time on a daily rate that includes everything I have available to me to use, but again, I do understand that this may not be possible for everyone.

Haven't done this for many years, but here's a fun project for a sole trader in a quiet moment; spend an hour or so listing all your major tools and equipment that you have available to use, then spend a bit longer online finding out what it would cost you to hire this stuff. I guarantee that this cost will horrify you - and these are the tools and equipment that you bring to the party as a matter of course...

Have a good day.

Cheers, Pete

 

[dzj]

Perhaps you shouldn't discuss detailed pricing with customers

Brian

+1
Just tell them what they'll be getting for their money. Other than that is none of their business.

 

[sawdust1]

I would not openly discuss prices with customers unless asked, i have been working for the lady in question for around 20 years as she has 4 holiday lets that i do maintenance on every year and her own place, so have becomes friends.
I asked for cash as i don't have an account with Travis Perkins, and bradfords where my account is did not stock this door, so i said i would have to add on 10% if i payed with my card and would have to put it through my books.
No one was falling out over it, it was simply a discussion about tradesmen adding a percentage onto materials, as she thought it was not done and i was trying to convince her that it was standard practice.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

" ... it was simply a discussion about tradesmen adding a percentage onto materials, as she thought it was not done and i was trying to convince her that it was standard practice."
She's obviously never dealt with a plumber or heating "engineer" then. :lol:

 

[Zeddedhed]

i was trying to convince her that it was standard practice.

It's absolutely standard practice but most people don't talk about it to their clients.

I understand that she's a good client - a 'friend' almost as you say. However in my experience even clients like this are looking to get the best deal and don't like paying more than they think they should. If she's running 4 holiday lets she's actually effectively running a business and therefore even more likely to try and get every saving possible.

I only have one client that I share prices with - my former business partner. I've known the guy for years and we've been through hell and high water together and are still very good friends. He will get a price from me for a job and then get two more. I'll always get the job and he always pays me the highest of the three prices (and shows them to me).

But in nearly all cases I reckon that giving that kind of information to clients is asking for trouble.

Put your percentage on and then like others have said you don't get too concerned about going back to do a little fix or extra and the customer feels loved - worth a fortune in my experience.

 

[sawdust1]

Doors are my biggest pain in the arse, most of them i have revisited to shave off where they have swollen. You can't ask payment for this extra work, so done in your own time.
The painted ones are the worst as you have to re-do the paint 3 coats, so 3 re -visits.
Just around the corner i made 5 sapele doors and have shaved them down 3 times each.
Another before xmas an Oak patio door after 2 visits i told the customer not to open it until the summer, it gets full force of the rain.

 

[Water-Mark]

I've had seemingly innocent comments come back to bite me like this, usually from landlords.

And it all starts with asking for two quotes, one for labour only.
Then the frantic googling begins to find what prices things can be had for, I once had a guy do this right in front of me in a bid to get the price down.

I try not to work for people like this, not because they drive a hard bargain I just find them hard work to deal with.

I generally "round up" as opposed to mark up but them I try not to supply very much these days.

 

[blackrodd]

Doors are my biggest pain in the buttocks, most of them i have revisited to shave off where they have swollen. You can't ask payment for this extra work, so done in your own time.
The painted ones are the worst as you have to re-do the paint 3 coats, so 3 re -visits.
Just around the corner i made 5 sapele doors and have shaved them down 3 times each.
Another before xmas an Oak patio door after 2 visits i told the customer not to open it until the summer, it gets full force of the rain.

I found that when "shot" in place and hung with the good old penny joint all round, the door must come off and have
the top and bottom edges primed, and undercoated, as well as the two stiles, this goes a long way to stop the door swelling, even on outward openers which are usually the worst.
I don't use acrylic undercoat either, Dulux aluminium is my choice followed by their undercoat and gloss, and have little problems so far.
Imagine what a game wooden garage doors were like, easing them during the winter and adding bits on and adjusting the locks when the better(?) weather got here in Sunny Devon.

Peter, You are of course right on the empty workshop, but luckily, as it's at my house with no outgoings, rent, etc,
although small it's not like having another mortgage as my previous workshop was.
I was faced with either expanding, and all that entailed or downsize, and be able to pick and choose a little on customer base.
Regards Rodders