Honing Guides

[Anonymous]

Rob

Another thought.

I have looked at the Kell guides and they are truly gorgeous, but it appears that their design is flawed when compared to others on the market.
As far as I can tell, one actually makes wedges for skew blades (I suspect that this is not entirely necessary) and a large one to hold plane irons in place (I suspect this is necessary) whereas other manufacturers have accomplished such tasks without resort to shop-made components.

 

[Harbo]

My Kell will accommodate blades from 0 to 2"5/8" and like the Eclipse holds them at the sides - it is also designed to take narrow and very short chisels.
Making a wedge for skew chisels is not that difficult?

If the Kell is flawed then so so is the Veritas whose double tightening arrangement is prone to give poor results unless great care is taken in tightening up the same amount to keep the chisel parallel. This especially so on narrow chisels.

Rod

 

[Hokie]

I have tried several and found the MKII is perfect until you get chisels less than 1/2" wide, then the Kell is perfect. You really have to concentrate on the edge, not the roller. I also have a Jet wet sharpener (Tormek clone). I'm sure it's nice, but I never use it. I like the oar for my scrub plane and turning tools, though it is a little slower to setup.

Like Paul, I don't use the grinder, but when the tool gets into the condition he described, I hand grind on 80-100 grit sandpaper and re-establish a secondary bevel in the normal method.

The jig I was most disappointed in was the Woodpecker/Woodcraft jig.
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20080
As the steel is abraded, the stone stops sharpening and so you manually advance the iron.

 

[Digit]

For what it's worth, this is my solution. The MK 1 Neandertal Honing Guide.

Roy.

 

[matthewwh]

Rob

Another thought.

I have looked at the Kell guides and they are truly gorgeous, but it appears that their design is flawed when compared to others on the market.
As far as I can tell, one actually makes wedges for skew blades (I suspect that this is not entirely necessary) and a large one to hold plane irons in place (I suspect this is necessary) whereas other manufacturers have accomplished such tasks without resort to shop-made components.

Hi Tony,

You are correct that the Kell No.3 guides need a shop-made wedge that holds the blade in place, the No.1 and No.2 guides grip the blade from the sides and are ready to use straight from the box.

I have found with my No.3 Mk II that I actually ended up making two wedges, a larger one for plane irons made from an ebony offcut and a smaller thinner one made from eucalyptus burr to accommodate the thicker blades of chisels. Both of these could have been knocked up in a few minutes, but I took a little more time over them because they were going to have to represent my workmanship next to Richard's.

I can see where you are coming from in terms of it not being ready for instant use, but I must admit I really enjoyed this little bit of customising. It was a refreshing break from the world of instant gratification we seem to live in, and being reminded of that each time I use it somehow puts me in a better frame of mind for when I go back to the woodworking.

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Several here have been concerned about out-of-square bevels on their chisels and plane blades, which they attribute to their particular make of honing guide.

I've said this before, so it is not deje vu In my opinion, the fact that a honing guide can influence side-to-side movement is a Good Thing. I consider that the ideal honing guide is simply a rest for the blade and an extension of one's hand or fingers. As in freehand honing, one uses pressure here or there to shape the bevel. If the bevel is out of square, then greater pressure is applied to the one side.

I have the Eclipse and have used the Veritas Mk II since before its release. I continue to use the latter for BU planes as the scondary bevel needs to be a specified angle. Even the flat roller version of this jig, which is not meant to do anything but hone a flat bevel, has a wide range of adjustment - just do so via the side hold down screws.

I think that it helps to imagine that you are freehanding the blade when you use a honing guide. Use a light touch. See what your hand wants to do.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Vormulac]

For what it's worth, I have tried freehand - managed to make blunt edges even more so, I've used a Stanley guide - didn't have a lot of luck with it and now I use the Veritas MkII with the cambered roller when appropriate and I'm more or less happy with the results (I can't shave my arm with my chisels as appears to be de rigour, but they do cut wood which I understand is a valid secondary function).

 

[PaulO]

I do use the "magic gauge" though

The problem is that you need a different magic gauge for chisels and for each plane blade thickness. Chisels are held in a consistent reference plane on their face, whereas the design of the eclipse holds planes on the bevel side.

I use one of these "magic gauges"

Although I now reserve the eclipse for plane blades, and use a veritas mkII on chisels, as it is easier IMHO to keep the edge square, particularly on narrow chisels.

 

[bugbear]

I do use the "magic gauge" though

The problem is that you need a different magic gauge for chisels and for each plane blade thickness. Chisels are held in a consistent reference plane on their face, whereas the design of the eclipse holds planes on the bevel side.

Geometrically, yes, but in practice plane blade thickness has a small effect on angle. I don't much care if I get 29.5 degrees or 30.5 degrees, as long as it's the same every time. That's not enough difference to effect cutting action, especially in a bevel down plane.

I want (super) consistency because it reduces sharpening effort, and a fixed gauge is super consistent, even if it's not accurate.

I have a separate gauge for chisels, as you say, but only 1 gauge for chisels, for the reasons above.

BugBear

 

[Anonymous]

My Kell will accommodate blades from 0 to 2"5/8" and like the Eclipse holds them at the sides - it is also designed to take narrow and very short chisels.
Making a wedge for skew chisels is not that difficult?

If the Kell is flawed then so so is the Veritas whose double tightening arrangement is prone to give poor results unless great care is taken in tightening up the same amount to keep the chisel parallel. This especially so on narrow chisels.

Rod

Rod

I was referring to the top of the range Kell which doesn't clamp the blades on sides.

How can you say the veritas is flawed in the same way as kell, when kell requires you make various wedges and the veritas simply requires that you have eyes and can see that you have tightened the nuts around the same amount (nothing to make for the jig to work)? :roll: :lol:

 

[Harbo]

Tony if you read my words carefully I did not say that the Veritas was flawed in the same way as the Kell.

What I was trying to point out is that all the jigs have their flaws - none of them are perfect and that is why I use the Kell (II) and the Veritas.

For knives I use the Edge Pro Apex who also have a Pro version that will cope with chisels and plane irons

http://edgeproinc.com/

It works extremely well with knives and I am sure the Pro version will give good results with chisels and irons too. It's design is an excellent way to apply and control different honing bevels.

Rod

 

[Anonymous]

Tony if you read my words carefully I did not say that the Veritas was flawed in the same way as the Kell.rod

I can read and have been able to for over 40 years, and I know you didn't. :roll:

I still don't agree that your comparison is valid, there is no issue what-so-ever with the twin screws on the Veritas (I have owned one since they were in prototype) and I still believe the kell is a flawed design as it does not work on all (I think that should read any as you need to make at least one wedge to hold an iron) plane iron as supplied - though aesthetically very pleasing.
The reason I looked so closely at the Kell is because I was considering buying one, but as it is supplied incomplete, I declined :wink:

You're happy with your Kell, I'm happy with my veritas..........

 

[Harbo]

Tony I did not say you cannot read - but only 40yrs that explains it?

Even Alf in her review of the Veritas found it a problem:

and tighten the clamp.
The latter needs to be tightened a little on each side at a time to avoid skewing the clamp bar - which I personally find a major main in the neck. It’s not an uncommon method, and I understand why it has to be done, but it’s jolly annoying all the same.

Enjoying both my Veritas II and Kell II jigs

Rod