Homebuying advice - cracked walls

[msparker]

Hi all,

A house we're considering making an offer on has visible cracking in a few places. The most alarming is on the upper landing where there are long cracks running down the walls on either side of the landing. They're only a couple of mm wide but quite long, photos attached. In the bathroom nearby there is also cracking along the wall:ceiling joint.

I know the answer is 'get a building survey done', but before we commit to an offer and spending money on the survey, I wonder if anybody has any general advice. Is it possible cracks like this could be superficial? Should we even consider moving forwards? For reference the house is in South East London. Cheers!

 

[mwinfrance]

Run away.

 

[Adam W.]

What's it like on the outside walls?

Just for reference, I buy stuff like this, so a small crack isn't considered an issue. YMMV, however.

Note the dodgy looking roof.

 

[msparker]

Wow! That puts the cracks in some perspective. I haven't seen anything from the outside, but the interior cracks are thin and near the top of the building so they could be there and just hard to see at a glance.

 

[Adam W.]

Are they where an extension or loft conversion has been added?

 

[msparker]

Are they where an extension or loft conversion has been added?

The picture shows the second floor. Half a flight of stairs takes you up from the first floor onto a landing where you have the cracks either side and then up again takes you to the loft. The bathroom in the loft (bottom of picture) also has cracking around the ceiling joint. I believe the loft (bedroom 2) and that bathroom are in a loft extension. The larger bathroom may also be part of an extension but I'm not sure.

 

[msparker]

Are they where an extension or loft conversion has been added?

I had asked the estate agent about it and this is what the vendor had to say: "I’m pretty sure they were there when we bought the place eight years ago. We patched them up when we decorated at the time. They’ve reappeared the last couple of years though and the one by the bathroom became more noticible after our neighbours did a loft conversion. This area has clay soil so some movement and cracks are very common, especially in period properties, so we’ve not been concerned. In hindsight we should have put lining paper on the walls before painting."

 

[Fitzroy]

The other end of the country but in Aberdeen cracks of these types are common and are referred to in surveys as settlement or breathing. The houses are all built with an internal timber construction that will move during the seasons. We have a couple of cracks in my office that open and close with the seasons. So yes the cracks could be superficial, but a survey would be needed to confirm. If the seller says they were there on purchase did they not have a survey done that they can share?

Cracks occurring in neighbouring properties after major works is not uncommon, but personally I'd have raised the issue with the neighbour and expected resolution!

Clay soils have been in some of the areas I have lived previously and I'd not heard of them causing seasonal cracks., but if you changed the water balance in the area, ie paving or drainage then they could dry or swell and cause issues.

Fitz

 

[Spectric]

How old is the building and what type of construction, could just be surface cracks but look outside as Adam has said and the final answer needs to come from a survey before you commit to buy.

 

[msparker]

How old is the building and what type of construction, could just be surface cracks but look outside as Adam has said and the final answer needs to come from a survey before you commit to buy.

It's an old (victorian I think) brick building. The cracking is largely at the top around the loft conversion.

From what people have said, it sounds like it might not be terminal and going ahead an offering would be reasonable. I'm guessing the more expensive building/structural survey will be the way to go over the standard homebuyers survey?

 

[Spectric]

Yes you want a full survey, they can save you more than the survey will cost if there are underlying issues.

 

[Argus]

After all that, the next important thing to consider is building insurance if you buy it.

The fact that you know of the 'defect', however minute, before buying may count against a future claim if greater related subsidence becomes an issue, or there is an issue with the quality of the work next-door.

You will be obliged to inform the insurer of this and they may choose to load the premium or, more likely, to refuse cover...... which you will have to declare as "Refused or Withdrawn Cover" on future applications for insurance with other companies.


Getting the vendor to offer indemnity may be a solution. Your lawyer will know about that.

But, I know what I'd be doing!

 

[msparker]

But, I know what I'd be doing!

@Argus, would that be waiting something else to come up?

 

[Argus]

@Argus, would that be waiting something else to come up?

The fact is that you are questioning the whole issue and it suggests that you will not be comfortable in years to come and the issue of those cracks will always be on your mind.

Frankly, it ain't worth the blood-pressure.

 

[flh801978]

As Argus says insurance may be your long term problem
I bought a house 34 years ago with a subsided rear wall…stone 24 inches thick…you could see out through one crack
Previous owner had really wallpapered over the cracks sometimes 4 or 5 layers
I rebuilt the rear elevation with new foundations …but never considered the ongoing insurance
The co I’m with isn’t bad but theres no way i could get insurance anywhere else as i know of previous problems.
A new owner could perhaps legitimately say they don’t know of problems from more than 35 years ago

 

[HappyHacker]

Given the age of the property I would expect to see cracks but I would expect that they may well have been covered up during redecorating. If the cracks are in parts that have been modified I would say they are to be expected to some extent but it does depend on the construction method. I have cracks like that in a 30 year old extension wall but it was built using thermalite blocks or something similar which are now known for causing cracks in plaster due to thermal expansion. I know it is not due to movement as the wall is built on solid rock.

On the other hand I have just learnt from a cousin that she bought a new flat in a house conversion without a survey and now nearly ten years later she is living with her daughter while £50,000 of remedial work is done. She was too upset to tell me what had actually gone wrong.

Personally if it was the house I wanted I would not be put off but would get a full survey done. Also have a look at nearby properties and go around asking neighbours if there are any problems with their properties.

Forty five years ago get a full survey on a very nice house I was buying. I had noticed there was some settlement which worried me. The surveyor found a well alongside the house and he believed that was the cause of settlement which he thought was ongoing. I did not buy the house. I drove past it a few weeks ago and it is still standing and the garden has been sold off for houses.

 

[trvlr]

Full survey is a must... There may be issues with any additions etc. made to original house as was. Likewise there may be evidence of subsidence - a not uncommon issue in parts of the SE London/NW Kent border.

If end of terrace then certainly possible subsidence issues for anything built in the mid-late 20s in many parts of London.

And one cannot always rely on neighbours to be up front about possible issues too. They don't want to limit their potential resale in the future so often keep quiet about such things.

Also remember that in the Victorian era - and even up to early post war - bricks were mortared in with lime mortar, and that has a different co-efficient of expansion to the now cement only mortar.. This can produce different effects inside/outside depending on how and where the cement mortar is used. The two don't exactly behave in harmony; though if the additions using the cement mortar are correctly bonded to the older lime mortar walls those diferent co-efficient influences aren't too serious. Lime mortar breathes more easily than cement, and allows moisture to escape through the mortar joints; whereas cement forces it out via the bricks; which can leave to salt deposits on outside walls and even spalling at times, and possible cracks where the two different types of wall meet...... Though I thins some modern bricks may allow that breathing more easily these days with fewer salt effects etc..

Lime mortared building have a natural tendency to "move" a little as it were; due to the expansion/contraction as per moisture in the walls/joints varying depending on the weather and (these days) indoor central heating). So if it's no more than that then may be OK. But as initially a full survey is essential here. Safer than sorrier considering the investment you're taking on on?

Personally I'd be much inclined to steer clear if "any" doubts or suggestions re' dodgy additions and/or possible subsidence.

 

[Geoff_S]

What I don’t understand is why the seller hasn’t repaired this before putting it up for sale.

 

[RobinBHM]

What I don’t understand is why the seller hasn’t repaired this before putting it up for sale.

Estate agents have told me in the past it’s not always wise: surveyors look for freshly Plastered walls, repairs etc as it can be an indication of trying to hide something.

 

[RobinBHM]

Hi all,

A house we're considering making an offer on has visible cracking in a few places. The most alarming is on the upper landing where there are long cracks running down the walls on either side of the landing. They're only a couple of mm wide but quite long, photos attached. In the bathroom nearby there is also cracking along the wall:ceiling joint.

I know the answer is 'get a building survey done', but before we commit to an offer and spending money on the survey, I wonder if anybody has any general advice. Is it possible cracks like this could be superficial? Should we even consider moving forwards? For reference the house is in South East London. Cheers!

Those wall cracks look like are directly below a wall supporting a steel…although it’s hard to work out from the images.

It doesn’t like subsidence of foundation issue, more likely in my opinion to be settlement after the Building works, or simply plaster shrinkage.

is it an external wall and if so solid or cavity wall.