Hinging one door of another

[davin]

Apologies if it has been asked before,
A customer wants to use doors to divide a room into two. Space is 3.6 wide by 2 mtrs high
Cant use a sliding system or track system.
I suggested using four doors. I make an oak frame (sides and top) Hinge each outer door to the frame, then hinge two centre doors to the outer doors. Then use top and bottom slide bolts to fix the outer doors in place enabling the two centre doors to be used like a pair of French doors.
When needed the bolts can be shot and all four doors can be folded to the sides.
But now I am worried that it might just be too much weight on the outer doors, will the weight pull the door apart, or just sag too much.
Hope this makes sense.
Anyone done it or have a better solution?


(doors are four internet bought 1981 by 762mm solid core oak veneered doors with 90mm rails and stiles with glass panels, probably dowelled)

 

[Zeddedhed]

Essentially thats a pair of Bi-folding doors.
Normally these would have a track, top, bottom or both and a pin or roller fixed to the second door would slide in this track. I can't see why your proposal wouldn't work but I'd check the weight of the doors first and make sure you hang them on really good hinges. Heavy duty washered or ball bearing 100mm as a minimum, with 3 per door.

 

[Rob Platt]

unless I`m misreading something your measurements don`t add up
all the best
rob

 

[RobinBHM]

If they are solid timber core they may work. There will be a lot of strain on the hinge screws so will need to be fixed into timber not chipboard.

Ive made bifold hinge doors before, I cant remember if they were as wide as 762 though.

Ball race hinges would be best, probably class 13. It may be worth fitting them in fire door pattern designed for closures ie; middle hinge set just 300mm below top hinge. I wonder if you will need to set these top hinges in a few 10ths deeper to counteract the sag.

Maybe nice thick liner legs - ex 1 1/2" so able to take longish hinge screws.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

I would be concerned at the weight and possibility of sag even with good quality hinges. Could you not rebate a top track into the oak frame so that it did not show.

Terry

 

[Jacob]

......
Anyone done it or have a better solution?


(doors are four internet bought 1981 by 762mm solid core oak veneered doors with 90mm rails and stiles with glass panels, probably dowelled)

Those doors would weigh a ton and also probably be not strong enough to hang from normal hinges.
But a pair of bifold doors is quite common in old buildings - made much lighter - framed and panelled in the usual way, perhaps hung from a track.
Have a look at some old joinery.

 

[AJB Temple]

762 x 4 = 3048 which is a long way off 3600. When folded back fully the door will project quite a long way into the room on both sides. Is this the most elegant and practical solution? Do you have room to make sliding doors? Could you make three per side narrower and lighter doors similar to window shutters?

 

[RobinBHM]

If they are solid timber core they may work. There will be a lot of strain on the hinge screws so will need to be fixed into timber not chipboard.

Ive made bifold hinge doors before, I cant remember if they were as wide as 762 though.

Ball race hinges would be best, probably class 13. It may be worth fitting them in fire door pattern designed for closures ie; middle hinge set just 300mm below top hinge. I wonder if you will need to set these top hinges in a few 10ths deeper to counteract the sag.

Maybe nice thick liner legs - ex 1 1/2" so able to take longish hinge screws.

I should add, as others have said, this should not be the preferred option and if the customers wants this anyway, your quote should say no guarantee regarding sag. Also consider the parking position of the doors. All hinges woild need to be on the same side, so wont bilfold in an ideal way

I had presumed you are reducing the width to suit the 762 doors. I definitrly would not attempt with even wider doors.

 

[davin]

Thanks for the useful replies.
Customer has already bought the doors ( first carpenter backed away from it)
The height is an issue, that's why we can't use a track.
If she hadn't already bought the doors I could have made them to fit the space.
Regarding the width, I will make the frame to fit the doors, then fill in the remaining space which will be plastered.
It is an awkward space with no perfect solution.
Maybe I will look into a top or bottom track.
Thanks for your help.
The things we ponder at night eh?

 

[DiscoStu]

You can buy sprung roller balls that you insert under the door and they help take the weight. A few of these might help? As others have said I'd be very concerned about the weight and as you increase the distance from the hinge you'll be increasing the leverage affect.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RobinBHM]

Ney do a small, budget bifold kit with small track.

Also brio do an internal kit with a smallish track. You might get away with fixing the track direct to the head of the opening and fixing timber either side. I think the track and gap to door may add up to 35 to 40mm.

A 2+2 configuration doesnt need a bottom track for an internal set.

 

[wolfey]

First time trying to upload a picture so sorry if all goes wrong!!!!!!!

Not exactly the same but these are pocket door system we made a while ago but has doors hung from another. We had concerns similar to your as the doors we made are 44mm thick solid ash over 2.3m high and around 950mm wide on rebates!!! With no bottom track support!!! Used rebated drop bolts on doors either side.

All works fine with no sag!! Was hit and miss at design stage.

 

[Graham Orm]

You've got the heaviest option for doors there. My instinct would be that there will be problems and don't touch it. If you do I'd fit 2 hinges at the top of the first door one centre and one bottom with longer than standard screws. It will be the fixings into the casing at the top hinge that will be the weak point.

Walk away is my advice.

 

[Lons]

I did something similar for my inlaws 25 years ago to divide off a dining room from the lounge. The doors were very light std pressed panel 2'6" doors from Howdens. I just used heavy duty brass hinges, 4 per door and flush bolts to top of outer doors.
I was concerned about weight and sagging but they hardley moved in the 12 years they lived in the house. 90% of that time it was just the middle doors used and only opened up fully for get togethers.

Bob

 

[oakfield]

I have done similar before and not had any problems.
The issue I had with using a track is that the doors would only open to 90 degrees. When hinged on each other like you propose they will open further back. It also means that the central 2 doors can be used as double doors or folded back 180 degrees for everyday use.

 

[davin]

Thanks for the replies (and photos of very nice doors)
Still havent worked out how to tackle this, maybe a ball catch in bottom of door?

Davin