Help with ebony

[Racers]

Sounds like you need a replacement cap iron, your slot that the adjuster fits into is too far down the cap iron, that's why you can't set it close.

Cap irons are easy to modify, nobody needs to buy a new one if just a few minutes of filing would resolve the issue.

You might as well get a new iron as well it should transform your plane

I don't think that's good advice to giving starter woodworkers Pete. Or TBH that it's sage advice anyway given all the counter info building up on what swap-in irons don't do (that they're supposed to, like reduce chatter).

If the adjuster slot is too close to the edge how can you file metal back on?

Pete

 

[Ped82]

Thanks for all the responses

Currently was using 3 oil stones course medium and fine (not sure of exact grit ). Just cheap .

It picked up a guide today to aid with the sharpening as I've always done it by feel . I also went to pick up a couple of diamond stones but he didn't have suitable grit in stock so he's going to order them in . I like to support local businesses where possible so don't mind waiting a few days to get them from him

I spent a while today sharpening the plane to try and get as good a sharpen as I could

I closed the mouth on the plane as far as I could without it clogging up . Also moved the breaker as close to the edge of the cutting iron as possible ( but as already stated it doesn't go more than around a mm from edge . I didn't put a bevel on the back at this stage yet

I had another piece of ebony here and I'm happy to say It planed really well , nice and smooth

The other piece of ebony I was struggling with , did plane much better but was still much more troublesome than this other piece . It has been suggested to me that the piece of ebony I had , had not been dried completely or correctly which would make it harder to work with ?


The hole in the iron is indeed too low to allow any more adjustment so new iron or plane will be bought .


Very pleased with the bit I was able to smooth off . Il give the back bevel a go and see if I can salvage the other piece

Thanks

 

[ED65]

If the adjuster slot is too close to the edge how can you file metal back on?

Fair point :mrgreen:

But it's the reverse isn't it? Am I not visualising this correctly, isn't it the side away from the cutting edge that needs adjusting?

If it is the other side though it's still easy to fix. I'd just epoxy in a slip of steel (or just use steel-filled epoxy, that's probably strong enough), others could solder or braze some steel or brass in.

 

[MIGNAL]

You may have got some Ebony with switching, twirly grain. It isn't the easiest stuff to work and you certainly need extremely sharp blades. I have an 8,000 waterstone and that's not good enough, I have to strop to get an edge suitable for that kind of Ebony. Your plane and chipbreaker also needs to be at it's best.
Ebony that is better behaved isn't too bad. I can go at it fairly aggressively with a roughly set jack plane and the surface isn't too bad. I simply can't do that with the nasty stuff and being an instrument maker I have a lot of examples of each type. That's just the nature of the wood, actually any type of wood but the hardness doesn't help. It's also hard to visually see the switching grain. Ebony tends to dull blades very quickly, so frequent sharpening is a necessity. The dust is also nasty, so hand sanding should be kept to an absolute minimum if at all possible. It does scrape well but again it will dull the tool edge relatively quickly. You are in at the deep end in terms of working difficult woods.

 

[ED65]

Currently was using 3 oil stones course medium and fine (not sure of exact grit ). Just cheap .

It picked up a guide today to aid with the sharpening as I've always done it by feel .

If your problem is with maintaining your honing angle then a guide could help a lot.

As for the stones, they're likely good enough for a lot of work but a wood like ebony may require a finer edge. That doesn't mean you need a new stone/plate though, historically refining the edge was often done using a strop, not a finer stone.

I had another piece of ebony here and I'm happy to say It planed really well , nice and smooth

Excellent. That indicates your sharpening and setup is pretty darned good.

The other piece of ebony I was struggling with , did plane much better but was still much more troublesome than this other piece . It has been suggested to me that the piece of ebony I had , had not been dried completely or correctly which would make it harder to work with ?

Could be, or it might just be that wood just varies. It doesn't even have to mean the second piece is from a different tree, you can get a nasty, hard-to-plane area (e.g close to where a burr or branch emerged) and a lovely straight-grained run of wood on two ends of the same board.

Very pleased with the bit I was able to smooth off . Il give the back bevel a go and see if I can salvage the other piece

Just remember that can be very hard to remove and will increase resistance on all your planing while it's there. It's much simpler and easier to try scraping, and the results can be stellar. I'd encourage you to try that first, or filling as another poster recommended.

I feel experimenting with back bevels is something for down the road, not something to mess about with early on as it increases the number of variables you have to keep track of.

 

[David C]

The back bevel is a powerful technique.

Planing with one is likely to produce a more accurate surface than scraping.

The often cited objection, that it is harder to push, is hardly relevant if one is working on small components and taking very fine shavings, (which one must!)

A spare blade is the most convenient arrangement, removing and replacing would be a pain.

David

 

[David C]

Two further thoughts;

Mouth width does not need to be fine. It could be 2 mm wide.

Chipbreaker is not set close. It has no function in the chip formation and could be set 2 mm back from edge.

Bruce Hoadley's book has a good explanation of these type 2 shavings.

David

 

[custard]

I don't think that's good advice to giving starter woodworkers Pete.

Does rather the beg the question, are you qualified to give advice?

Pete has shared his work with us many times and pretty impressive it is to. Why not post some photos of your work so the OP can decide if you're a voice worth listening to, or just another internet blowhard? First rule of the web, photos or it never happened!

 

[JohnPW]

You may have got some Ebony with switching, twirly grain. It isn't the easiest stuff to work and you certainly need extremely sharp blades. I have an 8,000 waterstone and that's not good enough, I have to strop to get an edge suitable for that kind of Ebony. Your plane and chipbreaker also needs to be at it's best.
Ebony that is better behaved isn't too bad. I can go at it fairly aggressively with a roughly set jack plane and the surface isn't too bad. I simply can't do that with the nasty stuff and being an instrument maker I have a lot of examples of each type. That's just the nature of the wood, actually any type of wood but the hardness doesn't help. It's also hard to visually see the switching grain. Ebony tends to dull blades very quickly, so frequent sharpening is a necessity. The dust is also nasty, so hand sanding should be kept to an absolute minimum if at all possible. It does scrape well but again it will dull the tool edge relatively quickly. You are in at the deep end in terms of working difficult woods.

My bold.

With really black ebony, it's really hard to see the grain.

Straighter grained ebony is not much different to plane than other woods, IMO. I use a normal "crappy" 102 (5mm mouth and no cap iron) to plane a violin fingerboard without experiencing problems, of course I take thin shavings though.

One piece of ebony I used for the violin saddle kept on chipping because of the grain was running all over the place.

 

[MIGNAL]

I plane down Ebony guitar fretboards. They come in at 10 mm's thick. I have to get them down to 7 mm's. It's quite a lot to take off but a bit of a nightmare if the grain is all over the place. If it's straight grain with little runout I can use my 17 inch wooden jack and go at it like crazy. I can do it in a matter of a few minutes, quicker than changing the blade on the bandsaw. It's not quite like planing Maple but it's not too bad.

 

[ED65]

Does rather the beg the question, are you qualified to give advice?

I wasn't aware there was a forum requirement that you have to be qualified to give advice. If you could you point me to?

Didn't think so.

Now sarcasm aside, someone doesn't need to produce work of equal or better quality to A. N. Other to be right about something. Just ask the average armchair footballer :lol:

Pete has shared his work with us many times and pretty impressive it is to. Why not post some photos of your work so the OP can decide if you're a voice worth listening to, or just another internet blowhard? First rule of the web, photos or it never happened!

The Internet is indeed full of blowhards. It's also full of self-styled forum policemen. Which, with all due respect, you might want to be more careful not to come across as.

Look, I'm fully aware of the problem of a mixture of 'pros and amateurs' giving advice in forums. On paper it would seem that someone seeking help would be best served by listening to the pros only, but in practice it's not nearly so simple for a multitude of reasons.

One of the main problems with that position, sound though it seems at first glance, is if you take it to its logical conclusion then OP should only be paying attention to one person's posts in this thread as everyone else is less qualified!

 

[Racers]

ED65

I don't think you are adding any thing to this thread for the OP.

I think you should stick to answering the OP post not having a go at every one on here, this is a friendly forum where people help each other out.

Pete

 

[Ped82]

Been reading through all the replies and taking all on board

I picked up a strop and sharpened blade as normal and then used the strop . The strop made a budge difference . It did feel a little sharper than before but I noticed it stayed sharp much longer

I've given up on the original bit of ebony now .

I switched to a piece of Indian rosewood I had and it's planed really well and managed to get the pieces done I needed with no trouble .

My next plan is to buy another plane or just irons to set up a blade with a back bevel . Although the plane I have is cheap , I like it and it seems to work well . So I might just buy a second plane and set it up .

 

[ED65]

I think you should stick to answering the OP post not having a go at every one on here

Excuse me, everyone on here? I have only 'had a go' at one person, who most definitely had a go at me so rightly deserved it.

this is a friendly forum

Perhaps you could remind custard of that seeing as this is at least the third time he's had a go at me ;-)

 

[custard]

Look, I'm fully aware of the problem of a mixture of 'pros and amateurs' giving advice in forums. On paper it would seem that someone seeking help would be best served by listening to the pros only, but in practice it's not nearly so simple for a multitude of reasons.

One of the main problems with that position, sound though it seems at first glance, is if you take it to its logical conclusion then OP should only be paying attention to one person's posts in this thread as everyone else is less qualified!

Not at all, woodworking has room for many different opinions, and long may that continue. The most qualified voice on this thread, by a country mile, is David Charlesworth. But that shouldn't and doesn't prevent posters having an alternative viewpoint, however everyone knows that David C's opinion needs to be carefully considered or you just look foolish. The real issue here is sharing your work, so people can make their minds up if yours is a voice they want to take seriously. You'd find a couple of jpegs (or alternatively losing the pompous tone) would help your integration into the community of this forum no end!

 

[lurker]

Look, I'm fully aware of the problem of a mixture of 'pros and amateurs' giving advice in forums. On paper it would seem that someone seeking help would be best served by listening to the pros only, but in practice it's not nearly so simple for a multitude of reasons.

One of the main problems with that position, sound though it seems at first glance, is if you take it to its logical conclusion then OP should only be paying attention to one person's posts in this thread as everyone else is less qualified!

Not at all, woodworking has room for many different opinions, and long may that continue. The most qualified voice on this thread, by a country mile, is David Charlesworth. But that shouldn't and doesn't prevent posters having an alternative viewpoint, however everyone knows that David C's opinion needs to be carefully considered or you just look foolish. The real issue here is sharing your work, so people can make their minds up if yours is a voice they want to take seriously. You'd find a couple of jpegs (or alternatively losing the pompous tone) would help your integration into the community of this forum no end!

To repeat Pete's words : I don't think you are adding any thing to this thread for the OP.

 

[custard]

You're right Lurker, I apologise to the OP and I'll shut up!

 

[JimB]

It's not for nothing that the French call their skilled craftsmen ébénistes.
If after all the other precautions have been taken, plane set properly with sharp blade etc, I have been told by an old luthier that it can sometimes help to give the surface a fine spray with water.

 

[MIGNAL]

It does but water doesn't soak into ebony all that well. One thin shaving and you'll have to wet it again.
Nice to see that Custard is the official forum policeman and has unilaterally decided who is the most qualified 'by a country mile' to respond. Quite how he knows who is the most qualified is a mystery, at least it is to me.

 

[JimB]

It does but water doesn't soak into ebony all that well. One thin shaving and you'll have to wet it again.

That's the case and I was hesitant to suggest it. I hate mixing tools and water.