Help with Chair repair.

[Paul.J]

I was asked just before xmas to have a look at repairing a dining chair,not feeling too good at the time i didn't pay much attention to it,just thought loose m&t joint,knock it apart clean it up re-glue it :roll:
But after looking at it proper today for the first time,i notice that there are 2 dowels going through the tenon,which are fixed to the rail :shock:
So i need to get the other side off to re-glue it but how can i do this without breaking it.If at all.
Seems a daft way of doing this as it as weakened the joint
Any help advice is appreciated.

Weakened Tenon :?:


Dowel top and bottom


Paul.J.

 

[Bodrighy]

I had three chairs that wewe made this way that had come apart and I simply glued them back under pressure. (didn't have any fancy clamps so used spanish windlasses and cardboard) That was about 10 years and 6 kids ago and they are still OK.
On mine the dowels were from the outside edge straight through the tenon nad you could see them if you looked carefully under all the varnish. Circa 1950+

Pete

 

[Paul.J]

Thanks Pete.
The dowels are definately glued to the back rail,and lock into the tenon,i can see where they finish in the mortise.
So for me to get the other side off,which is loose, i will have to break it and then re-glue i think.Just don't want to do any more damage to the chair. :shock:
Paul.J.

 

[norman]

Hi

drill out the dowles before pulling the joins apart, stops any more damage to the tennons or side rails. clean and reglue them, replace the dowles with more glue.

regards
Norman

 

[Paul.J]

Thanks Norman,but to do this will cause more damage to the chair.
Seems it's stumped a lot of you :?
Paul.J.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Paul

Thanks Norman,but to do this will cause more damage to the chair.
Seems it's stumped a lot of you :?
Paul.J.

What about using Chair Doctor glue? (Available from Brimarc) It comes with a fine nozzle so that it can be squeezed into the joints.

HTH.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Paul.J]

Thanks Neil.
Problem is Neil that the joint is pretty tight still,due to the 2 dowels holding it together,so i won't be able to get much glue inside,if any.



Paul.J.

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Paul

Chair Doctor is specially formulated to work into the joint.

The product is excellent.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Paul.J]

Neil.
Would this work if the wood has glue already dried on it,blocking the open grain as in the description:?:
Products / Veritas / Assorted Tools / Chair Doctor Glue
Chair Doctor Glue
Chair Doctor glue can penetrate narrow cracks in chairs.
If a chair has a loose rung, an injection of Chair Doctor Glue will first swell the rung & then bond it.
The low viscosity lets it soak into the end grain of wood, swell it & then freeze the wood in its swollen state as it cures. A film of dry glue is left on the walls of the wood cells, preventing contraction.
Cleans with just water. Chair Doctor Pro includes 4fl oz of glue, 1 syringe, 3 sizes of blunt-tip needles & 2 fl oz bottle has integral needle.
114ml *C £7.30
57ml *C £5.57

Paul.J.

 

[beech1948]

Paul,
Your best bet is to do the following.
1) Drill out the existing dowels. I know that appears to be creating more damage but the holes will be filled with colour matching filler.

If you don't drill them out then taking the rails out will mean that the tenon will be detroyed as you pull it out against the dowels.

As well as the dowels you will need to replace a matching finish. That may be difficult for you.

This task you might try to lay off onto a local furniture repairer/restorer. If the chairs are of and age and a value where they need to be repaired then might as well have a good job done.

We're not so much stumped as prevented from doing whats needed by your condition that the dowels are not drilled out. Seems like a must do to me.

Chair doctor might work...but if not then drill out the dowels slowly.

regards
alan

 

[dickm]

Any idea what glue was used originally? If the chairs are old enough for it to be animal glue, then wetting/steaming and taking out the back rail shouldn't cause too much damage?

 

[Paul.J]

Thanks for your advice Alan,but i think a trip to a restorer/furniture maker is out the question,the chair isn't of any great value.The owner like me thought it would just be a quick repair.Never come across a chair with dowels running through the Tenon before.I have repaired quite a few in the past,old and new.
Again if drilling the dowels seems to be the only option then this decision will be down to the owner.

****,M. wrote
Any idea what glue was used originally?
Looks like PVA,but not sure.It's not animal glue.
Thanks for your help
Paul.J.

 

[norman]

Hi paul j

I am a antique furniture restorer, have been since 1970 don`t know how many chairs I have done in that time but a lot.
Most old chairs have at some time been repaired mostly with a dowel/screw/nail/bracket etc across and through the joint in the hope that it will work. sometimes it does for a while but the only perment way is to take the joint apart clean all old glue away and start again. this will also mean refinish to the repairs. The application of new glue without cleaning out the old dry glue gives a very poor grip to the joint.
wish you lots of fun.
Regards
Norman

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Hi Paul

Neil. Would this work if the wood has glue already dried on it,blocking the open grain as in the description

I used it on two chairs, iirc, some three or four years ago. Whilst they were loose, I only just managed to insert the syringe and I was unable to clean the joint before applying the glue.

There has been no movement since.

It seems as though I've been lucky.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Paul.J]

Thanks Norman/Neil.
Neil i just thought as Norman pointed out the joint would have to be clean for the glue to work properly.But i will suggest using Chair Doctor and see what he says.
Paul.J.

 

[norman]

Hi paul j

Chair doctor has been arround for some time and in some cases it seems to work. My own feelings are that I would not use this on any job that I was charging for. Having seen the insides of damaged joints that are only a little loose I would not like to take the risk to my rep. for my standard of work.

regards
Norman

 

[dickm]

Thinking about this one, how about chiselling out the ends of the dowels to make the mortice its full original size, then build up the tenon to fit properly? If you take off the edges of the tenon where the dowel holes are, back to the shoulder, that should give enough of a glue surface for a strong job? Or even make a small mortice in the shoulder each edge of the tenon and extend the replacement material back into that as well?

 

[norman]

Hi paul j

just had another look at you pic`s
looks as if the dowles are from the back rail so are needed to supply the strenth there. if this is the case just clean out old glue from all serfaces and cramp up. the glue should fill some of the tear out in the tenon.
regards
Norman

 

[Paul.J]

Thanks DickM/Norman.

Norman wrote
looks as if the dowles are from the back rail so are needed to supply the strenth there.
Yes Norman this is the case,and the dowels are locking the side rails in,as they have been drilled through the Tenon,giving me the problem of getting the other side off without breaking/splitting the back leg.
The owner is popping round tomorrow so he can see the problem for himself,and how far he wants me to go with it.
Paul.J.