Help me spend £350 ?!

[EdK]

Well I am in the strange position of having some cash burning a hole in my pocket... I recently did a quick bit of extra work and got £350.

I have set this aside for some hand tools / furthering wood skills as it is unexpected money so to speak...

I have a few tools but was hoping to buy some more. Any one got any advice on what to get ?! Bit of a strange request I know.

I'm interested in making furniture and would like to have a go at making a table (long one for the garden); a carver chair (like the idea of all the curves and would like to try my hand at cabriole legs) and ideally a nice traditional tool chest. At any rate these are future planned projects... so far all I've made in earnest is a staircase from ash (somewhere in part on this site).

These are more or less the tools I've bought over the last year or two:
Bench chisels - been adding to them but have about 7 LN ones.
Paring chisel - have a Sorby one but prefer the A2 steel feel
Mortice chisels - a couple from Ray Iles.
Planes - a LN block plane and the LAJ from LV and a LN spokeshave
Dovetail saw - that japanese dozuki one from APTC (second blade already...and not for good reasons).
Some measuring tools etc etc
(Power tools - router / CCMS / drills / hand planer / circular saw etc)

I have been tempted to spend a chunk on a western dovetail saw like the Gramercy one but Ray doesn't take VAT off which makes me feel like buying an LN one from CHT...

It seems that saws are missing from my meagre tools so was thinking about a tenon saw too. This lead me to maybe a pair of saws from Wenzloff - a tenon and a dovetail but am not sure I could wait 6 months - or perhaps I could and it would be a good Christmas surprise.

Additionally I was tempted by a panel saw but am unsure about teeth and length.

Probably the rest (if any!) I'd spend on wood for one of the projects mentioned...(Yes, eventually I'd like to go on a course but have commitments that mean I'll be staying put until after at least Christmas)

Any advice ?

 

[Ironballs]

You've got a fair amount of tools there, perhaps a router table and jointer plane would be good purchases and maybe a belt and random orbital sander

 

[mr]

If you were thinking of Wenzloff saws you're sadly out of luck, such is Mike W s backlog of orders that he has had to stop accepting new orders. I wish I'd placed the order when I originally thought about it. Hopefully he'll get himself sorted out soon and be back to business as normal.

How about some rasps for those cabriole legs? Some Auriou ones should make quick work of your avalable cash.

Cheers Mike.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Don't know whether you have used scrapers before - if not the Veritas #80-style scraper is an excellent tool http://www.brimarc.com/home.php3?page=p ... _106_22_10 Once you've used one you'll wonder how you managed without it.

If you wanted a Wenzloff saw (and they really are very good :wink: ) you might be able to get one in a reasonable time from Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... at=1,42884 Probably best to drop them an email and ask what the supply situation is. The ones Mike Wenzloff has stopped taking orders on are the custom saws but I think he's still doing the standard range through LV.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Racers]

Hi,
Measuring tools, get your self a good combination square, marking knife, gages, digital calipers, rulers I have Fisher ones 1M 600mm 300mm 150mm. If you can't mark it out you can't make it.

Pete

 

[woodbloke]

I think I'd opt for a couple of saws (d/t and a tenon) from LN with some good quality marking out tools...gauges, couple of decent engineers squares. What about honing kit (or did I miss that?) in which case a honing guide, Extra-Fine DMT stone and leather strop - Rob

 

[George_N]

I know you are thinking mostly about hand tools but if you want to get into doing work with curved pieces a bandsaw would be invaluable.

edit; (Is that considered heresy on the handtools forum?)

 

[Pete W]

I believe Lee Valley still has stock of Wenzloff saws (I'm sure it's only custom orders that Mike is currently declining). But LNs and Adrias are readily available from CHT.

Looking at Ed's currrent tool list, I think a saw and at least one more plane might be the thing - maybe a Veritas jointer (assuming the LAJ mentioned is the low-angle jack)?

 

[EdK]

Thanks guys - good ideas.

@Ironballs (great name ) I made a router table and it works ok for me - kind of wanted something that I could look back on over time and say 'ah yeah, got that from 2008' ... router tables are important but just not sexy enough !

Like the idea of a jointer plane though.

Got a little dewalt square 1/4 sheet (or is it half sheet?) sander and thinking about a belt sander but kind of set my heart on something non-electrical...

@mr : thanks for the head up on the Wenzloff saws - will bear it in mind for the future. As for the Auriou rasps - I have a bog stnd turnip and 2nd cut which are workable - been thinking about an Auriou rasp after reading a good review in the Hand Tool Essentials book (collection of articles by people like Adam Cherubini / Lonnie Bird / Chris Swartz etc) - last time I looked on Classic Hand tools they were all sold out and shop shut... has this changed or is there another place to buy them from ?

@Paul : Got the set of Clifton cabinet scrapers and have used them alot - tempted by that Veritas #80 you mention - could be a good £40 well spent by the sounds of it. Will check out the Lee Valley site...

@Pete : Got rules (1000mm / 600mm / 300mm / 150mm) - mostly Rabone but have one Starrett 300mm one too. Made a marking knife but might buy one. Dial calipers/verniers are on the list. Got a mortice gauge that I like (Crown I think) and two marking gauges that I don't like (beech with a yellow plastic screw - don't like the one with the blade but this might just be me not sharpening it right...) Got a small square that is square but got a combi square from APTC that is waaay off ! Good point though - will try and ease some measuring tools onto the list.

@ woodbloke : Like the idea of DT and Tenon saws - think this will open up areas the most for me at the moment. Honing - yes, I use 4 grades of japanese water stones and the Veritas Mk ?? honing guide (got the samber wheel too) - pretty happy with sharpening chisels but not so confident with plane blades but hoping to learn more.

@George : Currently I have a large workshop that is about 100m2 with two floors.... however I am hoping to change this and actually finish my house ! Once the plumbing etc is in it will revert back to a house and won't be able to run power tools - have a small spare room and garden hence the need/draw of hand tools. But looking at the Lee Valley site or somewhere I saw a nice Gramercy bow saw / frame saw. Never used one but think that will have to go on the list - looked fine and looked like it would work well in place of a band saw (save on heating too with all this hand sawing - I have several mates with full industrial workshops who might allow me the odd cut here and there )

@Pete W : thanks for the saw input. Yes, I have the Veritas Low Angle Jack... looks like a jointer will have to be shortlisted.

So here is the current short list with no particular reality of whether I can actually buy certain items:

Saws:
Dovetail : Gramercy or Wenzloff or LN progressive (rip teeth seem all the rage ?))
Tenon : Wenzloff or LN
Frame : Gramercy (any UK shops/sites sell these ?)
What about other saws ? I noticed on the Wenzloff site the half-back and the large tenon and the carcass not to mention rip/cross panel saws.

Or would I be better off getting 'cheap' Diston panel saws from places like eBay ?

I can sort of see myself buying a full set (or as much as 350 quid would get me) of Wenzloff saws and just waiting until they can be made or is this lunacy ?!
DT $125 (£68)
Tenon 12" $160 (£87)
Half back 18" $175 (£95)
Panel saw 22" $215 (£117) (Read somewhere - maybe Adam Cherubini - that should be length of arm... mine are 29" from tip to pit ... gorilla genes or do you measure wrist to pit ?!)

Anyway that tots up to £367 (but need to add a bunch more for postage / blade tapering etc etc... Just an idea really...)

Planes:
Think a jointer would be good. Have been doing pretty much everything with the LAJ so far including even using it like a large block plane. Really like it.
Would it become more of a smoother once/if I go for a jointer ?
Looks like I am after a 22" #7
£180 for the Veritas LA BU jointer seems good.
When I looked at the LN #7 at £300 (would get VAT off being an islander so £255) it also seemed like a great bit of kit.

Just out of interest how much are the exotics like the Sauer & Steiner ?

Other things :
Auriou rasps / rifflers (use rifflers alot but just got the APTC cheap set)
Veritas #80 scraper
Good marking gauge (any ideas ? and I want no mention of the Clenton ones !)

Well my early Christmas rampage looks set - bumped into the guy who I did the work for at lunch and he confirmed the amount and that I'd be paid soon (always comforting).

Thanks
Ed

 

[mr]

`Auriou are back in business though more expensive then before/

with regards to those Clenton gauges - make your own!

Cheers Mike

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Hi Ed
My tuppence:
Back saws:
Note that The Best Things offer the Kenyon range of Wenzloffs. The site suggests these are all on B/O at the mo, but there was a 14" delivery a couple of weeks ago, and 19" delivery is imminent. (Don't know if all are earmarked for existing orders - just know where two will be taking up residence.)

Frame saws:
As in saw for resawing - homespun is the only option AFAIK
As in turning or bow saw - several makers, including of course Gramercy (i.e. Tools for Working Wood) who also offer a kit or just the hardware, ECE (available from Dieter Schmid Fine Tools (again, hardware available), Thomas Flinn or Crown (e.g. from the ToolPost)

Dovetail - again note, the Gramercy saw is available as a kit from TFWW

Rip/hand/panel saws: All of mine of cheapies, mostly off of fleabay. Gives me something to practice sharpening before I have to work on the expensive ones

Planes:
A jointer's my fave - I always think a plane's a bit like a hammer - the biggest that'll do the job is the right one (OK, so I'm an oaf - but I do also have planes smaller than my thumb print)

Don't have any expefrience of BU bench planes, but certainly my #5 1/2 jack gets used as a super smoother.

Other things :
Auriou rasps - Mike at Classic Hand Tools is working with Michel Auriou to get these back on the market. They are superb.
Alternatives include Gaignard Millon (I can never gt that link to urlify, there you go sorted, DaveL) which are made in the same tradition, Dragon Rasps which are more in the Eastern tradition... I like rasps. Could also look at Milani and Herdim.

Marking and Cutting Gauges. I haven't really found anything in between Crown/Marples et al and Vesper/Clenton (which are extravagant, but wow do they make marking out a joy - oops, wasn't supposed to mention them)
The less expensive ones often have gunky finish which hampers fine adjustment - a quick run over with fine paper will fix this.
Other thing that can be souped up is the cutter/point.
The point is usually too long and too pointy - easily fixed with a file.
I was told and have since found that the cutter is usually made out of cheese, and again often too pointy. A jigsaw blade ground to a not-too-acute point like a striking knife makes a good substitute. Other thing I tamper with is the wedge and mortice, so the blade is properly secured vertically.
Lots of folks like the Veritas or Titemark wheel gauges - there's a great review of these here

Hmmm. OK, that was more like thre'pence ha'penny

Cheers
Steve

 

[woodbloke]

Just out of interest how much are the exotics like the Sauer & Steiner ?

Thanks
Ed

Ed - In the light of the current economic climate, it might be a tad tricky to negotiate for a second mortgage ....

If you have a trawl back thru' some of my stuff you'll see that I sorted out a foolproof way of making gauges last year. Paul C may be along shortly to put up a few pics...hopefully 8-[ Ed Sutton also developed a good variation, but whatever you do, don't buy expensive gauges of any sort as they're easy to modify to make them work far better, plus of course you'll need at least four in the 'shop (so a crucial 'set' can be maintained) - Rob

 

[Anonymous]

I think I'd opt for a couple of saws (d/t and a tenon) from LN with some good quality marking out tools...gauges, couple of decent engineers squares. What about honing kit (or did I miss that?) in which case a honing guide, Extra-Fine DMT stone and leather strop - Rob

Absolutely!

And a nice LN bench plane

 

[bugbear]

Rip/hand/panel saws: All of mine of cheapies, mostly off of fleabay. Gives me something to practice sharpening before I have to work on the expensive ones

Seconded. Even if one goes to the expense of buying a modern premium handsaw (I think Wenzloff is the only maker, revealing how little stock prep is done by hand, as opposed to joint cutting), if you actually use the damn thing, it will get blunt, and surprisingly quickly - hardpoint saws form an inaccurate impression of teeth longevity.

At this point you will either have to sharpen it, or get it sharpened.

After this, the quality of cut will be mainly determined by the quality of the new sharpening.

As such...

I would recommend buying a good vintage saw; this should cost you no more than 20-25 pounds from a dealer, let alone a car boot, where excellent saws can be had at 3-5 pounds!

Then get the equipment and learn to sharpen, unless you know of a good sharpening service, in which case tell the rest of us!

http://www.geocities.com/plybench/saw_sharpen.html

Further, if you like the (gorgeous) handles on some of the elite back saws, simply buy a good quality saw from a car boot, and make a handle. There have been many step-by-steps on various forums showing this. It's fairly easy, and very satisfying.

This should leave money in your budget for items that are much harder to make yourself.

BTW, I also categorise bowsaws as something you can make yourself...

http://www.geocities.com/plybench/bowsaw.html

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you have a trawl back thru' some of my stuff you'll see that I sorted out a foolproof way of making gauges last year. Paul C may be along shortly to put up a few pics...hopefully 8-[

OK, if you insist

This is one I made based on Rob's design, which he in turn based on an old one he saw in Pennyfarthing Tools. The reason it works so well and is so easy to set, is because of the small saddle which spreads the pressure from the wedge.

You start by making the body, which is laminated from four pieces of wood, the inner two being separated by the wedge (wax the wedge well before glueing up so that you can knock it out). The reason for doing it this way is that it's easier to form the hole for the wedge rather than trying to chop it out of a solid piece of wood

You then cut out the hole for the stem and the saddle and glue on the other piece of wood

The metal pin is made from a masonry nail, which is ground to shape. Here it is all assembled

You really need to make one to get your head around how it works. It costs next to nothing because you can make it from scraps of wood left over from other projects. I have several conventional gauges and a wheel type, but this home made one is my favourite.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Paul - thanks for that...can't post pics at the moment - Rob

 

[EdK]

Thanks guys - have been thinking about this today between proper work

Steve - rasps... have you tried or anyone else tried the Corradi ones (http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Corr ... -23543.htm). As mentioned I like rifflers and use them a fair amount.

Think I would have to work up to the prices of the two french ones (Auriou and Gaignard Millon) and am not sure where to start with rasps - seems alot of choice...

Those Dragon ones seem good value - I assume that they would be a step between the Vallorbe turnip/2nd cut from APT and the french ones ? Seems like a logical step to take and then spend time working out what grain / shape / size to get for the expensive french ones.

Definitely going for a #7 jointer.
Definitely going for a small saw.
Seems to make the most sense.

Will have a hunt for longer saws and practice sharpening - any good dealers or does one take a punt on eBay ? Good patterns to look for ? Disston or others ?

Will modify and/or make more gauges.

Sooo... jointers.
Veritas BU LA Jointer is £153 (ex-VAT) on CHT and APT
Pro's are that the blade is the same as for the LA Jack that I own.

LN #7 is £255
More tempted by this as normally I'd go for the cheaper Veritas one but in this case I am trying not to think about money. I think it looks nicer than the Veritas one but that isn't exactly a great reason for buying it... Also I don't own a 'traditional / classic' plane and this would certainly remind me of my 'benefactor' every time I used it.

Any views ? Any recommendations ?
Currently swinging towards the LN #7

So let's say I go for the LN #7 - that leaves £95.

The Gramercy dovetail is £89.50 plus p&p (maybe £8) so this more or less cleans me out...

Or the LN DT for £79 (not counting postage as would be buying other things wither from CHT or APT - buying from Ray would be one item and he doesn't take VAT off)

Option A (Plane based)
LN #7 + Gramercy DT or LN DT (progressive ? or not)

Option B (Saw based)
Wait for Wenzloff to reboot and go for :
Wenzloff DT & Tenon 12" (about £185) + Veritas BU LA Jointer

Any thoughts ?

Oh and read that prices are going up on Saturday or Sunday ? Is this true ?

Thanks Ed

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Yep -Dragon a big step up from those at Axminster. Believe both Corradi and Vallorbe are machine cut - this makes a huge difference to the quality of the resulting surface.

For cheap(er) hand cut, try one of the Chinese made rasps from Matthew at WorkshopHeaven.
These aren't in the same style as dragon, but rather like prickly (tooth structure) european rasps.

Alternatives include Gaignard Millon (I can never gt that link to urlify, there you go sorted, DaveL)

Hey! How'd you do dat Dave? Thanks

 

[patl]

Well, if you go with the wenz saw option, you'll probably have gained some more in interest by then. My request went in last october and I still haven't heard a dickie bird ( Still all things come to he who waits or something...

 

[EdK]

Thanks all - bought a LN #7... for better or worse as I understand that the Clifton #7's are good too. Will see how it works out.

Will buy some other tools later.... a saw is on the list as are rasps / dial calipers / DT / tenon.... we'll see. Plumbing to do first....hmmm close to achieving one of the primary goals in life : shelter !