Hegner Multicut 1

[Claymore]

......

 

[xiphidius]

Thanks guys appreciated..I think I'm swinging towards the Axe..lol
I will post a kind of beginners review as and when to keep you all updated.
I'm sure I'll have loads of questions so bare withe me please
Regards
C

 

[Claymore]

.......

 

[xiphidius]

I hope so Brian..let ya know in due course.
C stands for Colin pure and simple
Nickname is BigC

 

[xiphidius]

Question before purchase surrounding blades....
Probably a naff question at that.
What is the life expectancy of the blades,..
When ordering the machine I want to make sure I have enough blades so as not to be hanging around on a subsequent order and I might as well order them at the same time..
Any guidelines would be appreciated and what sizes to order i.e most used and what type blades

 

[scrimper]

Question before purchase surrounding blades....

This is a comment I made re blades a short while ago it may be of use to you.


As far as types of blade go generally there are four types of blade worth considering as follows

1] Spiral blades. These cut in any direction, they are basically a normal blade that has been twisted so that teeth point in all directions. My advice is steer well clear of these for general fretwork especially as a beginner. Using these will likely put you of using a scroll saw for ever! They are IMHO the devils work!

2] Standard blades. These are just the standard traditional blade that have been in common use for over 100years. These are dirt cheap to buy and are available in all sizes. you can do most things with these but they do leave a small kerf or cut out at the back of the work which means more sanding. Sizes 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10 and 11.

3] Reverse tooth blades. these are the same as the standard blades but the bottom few teeth [about 3] point upwards rather than down which means that providing your work table is not too thick on the saw these teeth cut the bottom of the work and in most cases leave an almost kerf free finish with little sanding required. IMHO these are the best blades to use although they are generally not available in as many sizes as the standard blades. sizes 5, 7 and 9 are readily available [which unless doing really fine work is all you need].

4] Metal cutting blades. Well as it says for cutting metal, they have very fine teeth. I keep a few for occasional use only.

To sum up, in my opinion the best choice is reverse tooth blades for most use in sizes 5, 7 and 9 but keep a selection of the standard blades in the fine sizes for very delicate work such as 0, 1 and 2.

I generally buy my blades from Hobbies http://www.alwayshobbies.com/tools/hand ... ccessories and always opt for the Niqua brand. I have used these for well over 25 years and find them reliable and excellent value for money. I did try some Flying Dutchman blades which were very troublesome.
Hegner do a good range of Reverse tooth blades but you have to buy larger quantities. http://www.hegner.co.uk/products/spares ... lades.html

[I still have some original Hobbies British made Fretsaw blades that are almost 100 years old (My late Grandfather used to sell Hobbies goods) these blades show no rust and still cut as good as any modern blade.]



As you start fretsawing you will naturally have lot's of breakages to start with especially with the thinner blades and when they snap it will make you jump out of your skin every time! As you get more experienced you will find that the blades get dull and you will have to change them as they don't cut as well rather than breaking. Don't do what I do which is try to use a blade for as long as possible to save cash, the blades are dirt cheap and a fresh blade will cut twice as fast as a dull well used one. And as I mention above do not bother with spiral blades they will put you off forever!

 

[xiphidius]

Thank you for that scrimper. It has provided me with an excellent platform from which to work of...I will order extra blades at point of purchase which is likely to be at the end of the month so I will keep everyone informed..Normal blades and reverse tooth blades seem to be the way for me being a newbie...I have worked band-saws before but this is a different ball game...I have some ideas in my head and I am busy collecting probable easy beginner type projects from various sites to get me going...I enjoy making things and gardening so maybe I can combine the two at some point lol.

One more thing "The Blank Table Insert on the Axe......do you go through a lot of these (haphazardly cutting them if they are loose fitting)..do you make your own replacements, do you keep a few in-stock from the supplier...again I will order some at initial purchase of machine.

Thanks for all your help thus far guys....it is really appreciated
Regards
C

 

[AES]

Welcome xiphidius. Best place on the web for very friendly and helpful people.

I've only just seen this thread so I may be too late, but FWIW, I entirely agree with all the comments above about Hegner (except the V high cost of spare parts, of which, as I'm not a Hegner owner, I have no knowledge apart from various postings about their prices which I've seen here several times).

I got a new "proper" scroll saw for my b'day a couple of years back, and unlike buyers in the UK, I had the chance to try both the Hegner 2 and the Pegas/Excalibur saws side by side for quite a long time (well more than 30 mins each).

I entirely agree that the Hegner is definitely of R-R in terms of build and materials quality, and it "felt" even better than the Excali, but I settled in the end for the Excali, which as someone said above (was it scrimper, who definitely knows 'is onions) is not quite as good as the Hegner but still very well made indeed - perhaps the Cadillac v R-R comment is about right.

The reason why I chose the Excali is it that it is, for me, easier and more convenient to use than the Hegner - especially because of the tilting head feature, as opposed to the tilting table of the Hegner (and almost all other designs too BTW).

When I posted all about that a while back (link to my OP follows) a lot of people here responded that they made nil or very few angled cuts anyway, so that feature wasn't important to them.

Fair enough, but since I've had the Excali, I've found myself using it in preference to my little band saw for angled cuts, simply because it's so convenient and accurate compared to my band saw's tilting table - and I'm talking here about loads of jobs that wouldn't normally be considered scroll saw work at all. Subject to blade, which has been well covered above, it will cut just about anything up to about one and a half inches thick.

The other thing is that spares for Excali saws are very reasonably priced (NO, I didn't need to buy spares because something broke, I just bought some recommended spares, as per the Manual, on a "just in case" basis). And they really were "sensible, pocket money" prices too.

Since I bought my Excali, Axminster tools in the UK have apparently done a deal with General International (who make the Excali) whereby what looks to be exactly the same as my Excali saw is now available under Axi's own label in the UK at a somewhat lower price than the original Excali that I bought. As I say, I haven't seen the "Axi Excali" saw in the flesh, but from several posts and pix here it seems that the Excali version is to all intents and purposes exactly the same in terms of materials, build quality, and design as my "original Excali".

So in short, Hegner's are "probably" the absolute R-R of saws, but are IMHO somewhat old-fashioned in design compared to a more modern design of the Excali - especially the tilting head aspect, which again IMHO, you should not dismiss as unimportant. And Excali spares are sensibly priced too, AND it seems that you can now buy "exactly the same" machine in UK at a lower price than the original Excali that I bought. So something to think about there?

There are several other well satisfied Excali users here too BTW, so I'm not a lone voice.

Hope I haven't upset your apple cart(!) and HTH.

I'll have a search and find the link to my OP about my purchase and post it here later on.

AES

 

[AES]

Update to my last post (above).

Here's the link to my OP referred to above:

biting-the-bullet-ex-21-t89722.html?hilit= Biting the bullet

Note that around the date of that last post there were several other posts comparing various scroll saws.

HTH

AES

 

[xiphidius]

Thank you AES for taking time out to write such an informative article and link in reference to my plight(Hope you are keeping well) , Again as is with everyone offering help and the forum in general I thank you all for making this a great place of learning.
I am pretty much settled on the Axminster (or as you say a Hegler/Excalibur clone...mainly because I want a variable speed of which the Hegler is too expensive on an ongoing basis)...so it has come down to this at the end of the month I hope to be a proud owner of a brand new scrollsaw and hence begin to learn about all aspects none the least woods/cuts/blades and techniques. I'm perhaps not going to be using it 24/7 and again it will be for embellishments to other projects having said that I dont want to invest in a £100 saw and have all the problems associated with possible Chinese tat....(I've been there)....So I'm pretty much settled...I wanted a Hegler but am prepared to compromise just a little on the Axe now that they have fixed all the major glitches regarding duff parts....coupled with availability and cheap/er replacement parts and consumables....I'm content with my decision given everyone's input above
Thanks
Regards
C

 

[AES]

Thanks xiphidius, I'm fine right now (I "just keep taking the tablets"!).

From what I've read over time here, I'm sure you won't regret your decision. And anyway, don't forget that much more than the machine it's the user who has most effect on the finished product, and that "only" takes practice.

It seems that you've had experience of Chinese "tat" so already know how frustrating that can be, but the fact remains that given enough time and skill to "primp" such machines, they CAN be set up to produce good results, as several past posts here have shown.

Anyway, enjoy your new purchase and sing out when you have more Qs - there's loads of people on here with far more knowledge and experience than I have and they are, to a (wo)man, always ready to help.

Cheers.

AES

 

[xiphidius]

Thank you AES....
"The Blank Table Insert on the Axe......do members go through a lot of these (haphazardly cutting them if they are loose fitting)..do you make your own replacements, do you keep a few in-stock from the supplier...again I will order some at initial purchase of machine.

 

[AES]

Personally, I've only made a couple (using the Excali itself to make them out of good ply) as they don't wear out much - UNLESS you forget to remove them when making angled cuts!

AES

 

[xiphidius]

Thanks again..
Just watched a couple of vids on the Tube and for your information AES
The Excali IS The Axminster...the same ...made by the same people and re-branded under the Axminster banner.

 

[AES]

Not quite. Just for the purposes of accuracy, the Axi is ALMOST the same as the Excalibur, as I posted originally, and NOT the other way round as you suggest (unless I've misunderstood you).

Some history (I did quite a bit of research before I bought mine). The Excalibur design is about 15-20 years old, distinguished by the tilting head, and was first invented and produced by a gent running a small-ish company in Canada. He subsequently sold out some years ago and the same design is now produced by General international, a Canadian firm who also produce table saws and several other well regarded wood and metal working machines. Although produced in Taiwan, the Excali quality is very good indeed and GI claim to have their own QC person/s in the factory checking every machine before despatch.

Axi have only been "producing" their "own label" version of the Exacli for the last year or so (as I also posted). From what I've seen of the Axi versions in pix on this Forum and on the Axi site, their version is (as above) ALMOST the same - but they've added an NVR switch (not present on the "standard" Excali machines) and also a funny-looking (and probably unnecessary) blade guard affair UNDER the table.

AES

 

[xiphidius]

I stand corrected AES and bow to your research capabilities lol...The NVR switch is a safety feature for schools and colleges according to their web site...
I cannot wait to get started
Wooden flooring seems to be all the rage over here...I wonder if I approach the local firms they might have some nice offcuts

 

[AES]

No problem xiphidius .

I don't know but purely as a guess, I would have thought the kind of bloke ("1man band"?) who's contracted by flooring manufacturers to actually fit the flooring would be a good bet - if you can find such a bloke. Over here all such fitters (kitchen, bathroom, flooring, etc) have to pay to dispose of their off cuts, and that price is - of course - usually added to the price the customer pays for the whole job.

AES

 

[Claymore]

.........

 

[scrimper]

I got a new "proper" scroll saw for my b'day a couple of years back, and unlike buyers in the UK, I had the chance to try both the Hegner 2 and the Pegas/Excalibur saws side by side for quite a long time (well more than 30 mins each).

I entirely agree that the Hegner is definitely of R-R in terms of build and materials quality, and it "felt" even better than the Excali, but I settled in the end for the Excali, which as someone said above (was it scrimper, who definitely knows 'is onions) is not quite as good as the Hegner but still very well made indeed - perhaps the Cadillac v R-R comment is about right.

The reason why I chose the Excali is it that it is, for me, easier and more convenient to use than the Hegner - especially because of the tilting head feature, as opposed to the tilting table of the Hegner (and almost all other designs too BTW).

When I posted all about that a while back (link to my OP follows) a lot of people here responded that they made nil or very few angled cuts anyway, so that feature wasn't important to them.

Fair enough, but since I've had the Excali, I've found myself using it in preference to my little band saw for angled cuts, simply because it's so convenient and accurate compared to my band saw's tilting table - and I'm talking here about loads of jobs that wouldn't normally be considered scroll saw work at all. Subject to blade, which has been well covered above, it will cut just about anything up to about one and a half inches thick.

The other thing is that spares for Excali saws are very reasonably priced (NO, I didn't need to buy spares because something broke, I just bought some recommended spares, as per the Manual, on a "just in case" basis). And they really were "sensible, pocket money" prices too.

Since I bought my Excali, Axminster tools in the UK have apparently done a deal with General International (who make the Excali) whereby what looks to be exactly the same as my Excali saw is now available under Axi's own label in the UK at a somewhat lower price than the original Excali that I bought. As I say, I haven't seen the "Axi Excali" saw in the flesh, but from several posts and pix here it seems that the Excali version is to all intents and purposes exactly the same in terms of materials, build quality, and design as my "original Excali".

So in short, Hegner's are "probably" the absolute R-R of saws, but are IMHO somewhat old-fashioned in design compared to a more modern design of the Excali - especially the tilting head aspect, which again IMHO, you should not dismiss as unimportant. And Excali spares are sensibly priced too, AND it seems that you can now buy "exactly the same" machine in UK at a lower price than the original Excali that I bought. So something to think about there?

A very informative, balanced, helpful and interesting post if I may say so.
FWIW I can't take the credit for the comment comparing the Hegner and Excal being the R-R and Cadillac of scroll saws although I did agree with it.

 

[Rustic Mike]

Have been a scroll saw user for 30 years and own 3 scroll saws inc a Hegner which I purchased in 1999.

So here is my take on your predicament if it's any help to you.

Build quality of Hegner is about as good as it gets, reliability is also about as good as it gets but as sunny bob mentions if you do have a problem (highly unlikely) spare part prices are horrendous.

My Hegner Multicut 2s variable has been brilliant, it's had regular and extended use for 17 years and hase been used also by 2 clumsy grandchildren (9 and 13) only thing that has caused trouble was the simple on/off switch which cost 75pence (not a Hegner part).

My essentials for buying a saw for serious fretwork/scroll work are below.

1]Quick release blade
2]Quick release tension lever
3]Variable speed
4]Induction motor

Depends what you are planning to do with the saw but if it's fretwork with internal cutting the 1 and 2 are essential 3 is extremely useful for delicate work or when a beginner and 4 results in a quieter more vibration free experience, plus induction motors are extremely reliable.

Not a fan of the multicut 1 TBH but I appreciate the 2s range do cost a heck of a lot more. have you looked at the Axminster AWFS18 which seems to be a clone Hegner copy and has most of the 4 mentioned points apart from the quick release blade clamp but I understand the Hegner one can be purchased and used with it. It's also about £300 cheaper than the equivalent Hegner model. http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tr ... saw-501201

I’m thinking of getting a scroll Scrimper, and wondered what thickness I could cut on one, could I cut 12 mm plywood or stack cut two pieces of 12 mm plywood many thanks, I think you are great with the help you give to us beginners.