John Brown
Freeloading Social media influenza
Mine is too old and primitive to accept an external sensor of any kind.
That was me and I do the same just the other way round since I have a Nest stat and Tado TRVs. I set the TRVs to temp and control the nestSomeone in an earlier post mentioned Tado smart heating. I installed Tado smart radiator thermostat heads to all my thermostatic radiator valves, I ignore my central thermostat which is set to max or bypassed, these give precise temperature control to all rooms and can be set to come on at different temperatures at different times of the day or night.
The system can detect open doors or windows and switch off heating or turn on and off heating when you leave or return calculating how long to achieve the desired temperature.
I would say my system paid for itself in the first year of use and makes for simple control especially if you use Echo or similar devices for voice control.
I has proven particularly useful when away in winter as you can monitor the temperature of the rooms from your smart phone app.
I know there are other similar systems but I only have experience of this system and it knocks manual TRVs into a cocked hat as they say.
I'm sorry I cant accept -Let's see....
Yes, adjacent rooms will lose heat into the cold room. Therefore they will either be slightly colder than before {A} or they will draw more energy from their heat source to maintain their temp {B}.
In {A} another room will be cooler than before, therefore less heat loss to external = even more savings.
In {B} I need to show that the extra heat output from the remaining heaters is less than was coming out of the turned off heater. ie that the total heating energy is less. To show that with the details (individual temperatures and radiator outputs) requires running the 2 detailed models against each other. But again I can simplify by choosing my system boundary as the external walls, and we are back to: if every external wall is at the same or lower temperature then the heat loss will be less.
edit: There doesn't need to be a heater to turn off, closing the door on an unheated bedroom will also lower the delta temperature across some external walls which will reduce heat flow to outside.
In {A} another room will be cooler than before, therefore less heat loss to external = even more savings.
You allowed for comments so here they are I'm not a professor but a mechanical engineer who got A's in thermodynamics.
1). Letting the temperature fall lower and then reheating [A] will use less energy than maintaining at an intermediate temp and then re-heating .
To model this for sizing say a boiler would need delta temperatures and heat capacities and heat conductance values, not too hard (but hard in text format) and also not general. But there's an easier way to think about it, which is to only look at the heat loss which is proportional to delta temperature. At every time point the indoors/object temp is lower or equal in scenario A so the total heat loss is less. The start and end points of each scenario are all the same Temp so there are no stored energy deltas to complicate issues.
In [A] it will take longer to heat the house from the decision point to turn the heat up, but that will only save additional energy by being less responsive.
2). Turning off the heat in a bedroom and closing the door will save energy.
Again we only need to look only at the external heat loss. The inside temp of the bedroom external walls and windows will be lower than when the room was heated, therefore less energy will be flowing out through those walls.
Note: You haven't replaced an external wall by an internal wall; You have added an internal wall and 12 foot air gap to the same external wall.
Surely heat loss is proportional to temperature gradient AND distance from the equator which dictates average yearly weather data AND the make up of the material heat is being lost throughHeat loss is always proportional to temperature gradient.
With no suggestion of money saving in mind, have you seen the Tado Control stat which would replace your nest is £99.99 in Screwfix?That was me and I do the same just the other way round since I have a Nest stat and Tado TRVs. I set the TRVs to temp and control the nest
So what? Given the same distance from the equator, and the same insulation, it's proportional to temperature gradient. I filled my attic with red herrings. Works well, but smells a bit in summer.Surely heat loss is proportional to temperature gradient AND distance from the equator which dictates average yearly weather data AND the make up of the material heat is being lost through
May i ask why you chose Red Herrings as opposed to any other colour?So what? Given the same distance from the equator, and the same insulation, it's proportional to temperature gradient. I filled my attic with red herrings. Works well, but smells a bit in summer.
Yes, you may.May i ask why you chose Red Herrings as opposed to any other colour?
Or you could just turn the knob yourself when the weather turns colder, this morning I noticed that our boiler stat was turning the boiler off although the room stat was still calling for heat, so I turned the boiler stat up a little, this means the boiler is running for longer periods at a higher temp.My quite old condensing boiler has that feature, but it's manual, sadly. I suppose I could automate it with a stepper motor to turn the control...
If only we could dig electricity out of the ground!Or you could just turn the knob yourself when the weather turns colder, this morning I noticed that our boiler stat was turning the boiler off although the room stat was still calling for heat, so I turned the boiler stat up a little, this means the boiler is running for longer periods at a higher temp.
It seems to me that a problem is that were now in a situation where were having to use very complex multi faceted systems as outlined in a post above to extract the maximum economy, and of course with this complexity comes unreliability and many of the gas fitters barely understand them, so they advise customers to buy a new one, so any savings you might have made goes in another £3000 boiler! The real shame is that were still using wet central heating systems at all, clean electric with no servicing and when the heaters conk out you pop up to Argos and buy another for £29.99 and just plug it it!,,,if only electricity wasn't so bloody expensive!
Steve.
Having access to an MCIS approved heat loss calculator I can confirm the net result of a substantially cooler internal space adjacent to a heated space is more energy being needed to heat the heated space.
A few months ago I tried to find and employ a heating consultant (not an engineer who was going to install a system), I failed to find one. I am researching this myself now from whatever information (including forum posts!) I can find online.Not any easy thing to do when one considers that most domestic punters look at one thing and one thing only - the price. Most would be unwilling to pay for something that they feel they can learn from the internet for free.
There are also so many variables with each installation that a site visit would be necessary which would need to be paid for. Then there is the issue of liability if the system doesn't work 'as expected' (an useful get-out for the punter) and they end up telling porkies about how they used the system.
A good idea on paper but not in reality I fancy.
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