Heating for workshop!

[gasmansteve]

Hi all
I suppose its woodworking of a fashion??.
I`ve been thinking of installing some form of heating in my concrete garage/cum workshop. I`ve a bigger car now so its not used for the car. Its detached from the house and I have been thinking of getting a little wood burning stove to serve two purposes 1- the heating and 2- a way of getting rid of the shavings/**** ups made at the lathe (many of) etc.
Anyone know the ventilation requirements for the these (I suppose maybe similar to gas?) and does shavings etc make a lot of smoke as I live in a smokeless zone and don`t want to cause grief to my neighbours.
It would simply stand on the concrete floor with about 2.5m of flue pipe up throught the corrugated roof (8yrs old so not asbestos!) any other advice/tips very welcome please.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Sawdust]

I have one of these http://www.thehotspot.co.uk/products.asp?cat=1 and it's brilliant. Easy to light and gives out loads of heat.

How smokey and smelly it is depends very much on what you burn it it, softwood is pretty bad as is anything damp but I find oak and ash offcuts are nowhere near as bad.

It always smokes like mad when first lit but I think that is unavoidable.

I haven't tried burning shavings/dust in it so can't really comment.

All it needs is a flue through the roof and most garages are draughty enough to keep it fed with fresh air without worrying about anything more complicated.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Wood Monkey]

Hi Steve

Can't comment directly regarding wood burners as I don't have one, but I thought I'd share this picture to demonstrate the importance of insulating a workshop. I use a small electric fan heater that warms the place up in 10 mins or so and then needs a top-up once an hour. If I was working fulltime in my workshop I'd consider a wood burner.

This was taken whilst I was building my workshop and shows the frost that has formed on the part of the roof that was insulated versus the part that was still WIP…

Sorry about the poor picture quality.

 

[Webblet]

Hi Steve

Approved Document F - Ventilation in the Building Regs will tell you about requirements for ventilation of gas appliances and I think wood is the same. I agree with Sawdust though, if your garage is draughty you won't have to make special provision for ventilation. Although if you start to get woosy it's probably time to go outside

As you are in a smoke control zone you have, IMHO, only two options. You can either burn charcoal, which wouldn't really help you as you have so much "free" fuel already but would burn cleanly, no smoke (buy English made charcoal, it's from sustainable woods and far better than the foreign brands).
Or you can buy a clean burn stove. This is a stove where it basically burns the material twice (i think, if anyone knows better please correct me) but it costs more to buy and there is a limited range atm.

Regarding where the chimney passes through the roof you will need a fire stop thingy so the roof doesn't melt/catch on fire. You will also need a flashing around the chimney on the outside so there is no water ingress.

This is a rhyme I found on the internet, it may help you with what to burn.
http://www.the-tree.org.uk/TreeCultivat ... rewood.htm

Beechwood fires are bright and clear
If the logs are kept a year
Chestnut only good they say
If for long it's laid away
Make a fire of elder tree
Death within your house will be
But ash new or ash old
Is fit for a Queen with a crown of gold

Birch and Fir logs burn too fast
Blaze up bright and do not last
It is by the Irish said
Hawthorn bakes the sweetest bread
Elmwood burns like churchyard mould
Even the very flames are cold
But ash green or ash brown
Is fit for a Queen with a golden crown

Poplar gives a bitter smoke
Fills your eyes and makes you choke
Apple wood will scent your room
With an incense-like perfume
Oaken logs, if dry and old
Keep away the winters cold
But ash wet or ash dry
A king shall warm his slippers by.

 

[Losos]

I thought I'd share this picture to demonstrate the importance of insulating a workshop.

Just want to agree with this...................insulation should be the first thing you do. In my workshop I had a double layer of Rockwool in the roof and thick polystyrene slabs in the floor.

You may not be able to do the latter but do think about the ceiling.

I have a wood burner, it's good, gives off a 'dry' heat which helps to reduce condensation and, therefore, the dreaded rust.

Of course where I am, some form of heating is essential since it's not unknown for temps. to drop to minus 20C at night :shock:

 

[mister henderson]

On the subject of insulation, I have found 8x2 sheets of 18mm T&G moisture resistant chipboard to be an excellent way of improving a concrete floor. The edges lock together so as to prevent edges rising. It's easy to slide quite heavy machines over it, too Can be bought as cheaply as £7 each ish

 

[gasmansteve]

Thanks all for the helpful replies. I must admit I have become quite aware of damp/rust etc since buying my new Record band saw and wondered about heating it to combat that. With it being a concrete garage, a bit of a pain insulating it but lots to think about.
Cheers
Steve

 

[9fingers]

In my book, even more important than insulation is stopping all draughts.
Airflow from outside will quickly negate the effect of any heating. Insulation will stop heat leaking away over time and help reduce the heat build up in the summer.
If you use an air consuming heating process oil, wood or gas bring in an outside air supply direct to the burner, remove all possible heat from the flue gasses and send these out side using a proper chimney/pipe.
You don't want to be burning warmed air!!

Other threads here have discussed wooden cladding on concrete floors and IMHO well worth doing and adding insulation.

My workshop is well insulated from floor to ceiling and is just under 30 sq metres. 1 thermostatic oil filled radiator with 750 watt capacity keeps the chill off throughout the winter. When I'm working out there, a fan heater for an hour or so makes it comfortable for the rest of the day.

HTH

Bob

 

[OPJ]

If you're using it as a garage-cum-workshop then, would the MR T&G Chipboard also take the weight of a car?

I only wonder what people would do when they move house - assuming the new occupants would only use it as a warm garage for storage. :roll:

 

[Streepips]

Steve, a woodburner is a good option, just dont be tempted to think the bigger it is the better it is, they need to work fairly hard for best burning efficiency, and get one too large and it will gobble fuel to quickly.
I see Sawdust gave you a link to the HOTSPOT site for their Relax range of workshop stoves and if these appeal to you then do a search on Ebay for Sun Stove on Ebay and you will get a version of these under a different bame. Same stove much cheaper. Mine was £99:00 and is plenty for my workshop, will burn sawdust and chippings, as well as solid timber and burns clear when up to temp so no smoke, just a haze. Came with an optional cast iron barbecue griddle top as well !
One thing to be aware of though.......Stove pipe is expensive... cost you prob 2 or 3 times what a stove in this range will, round figures £35:00 per metre for 4" vitreous enamelled, and you must have double insulated to pass through the roof, or the hot exhaust gases will chill and sink and forget about an efficient and smoke free stove if that happens. a 1.2M length of this will set you back approx £100>£150, then you need flashing mat to seal the roof, another £30 plus, a rain throw off collar to fit above that, another tenner, and of course a rain cowl. A simple one of these is circa £25:00, then you will need fire cement, pipe support clamps and stays for inside and for the length that protrudes out of the roof...
My stove cost £99 and the flue etc cost £288 inc vat and that was with 40% discount........ Just so you know of likely expenses to do it the "correct" way
Stove works a treat though, really easy to light kicks out great heat and burns clear even burning sawdust. leaves just a fine dust and no ash to clear out

 

[tim]

Streepips

I'm sure you are right about the colder exhaust sinking on non insulated flues but the flue is also designed to be a heat source in itself. I have been using my Hotspot for three years now - lit almost every day from end of Oct to March with no probs with a standard galv flue. However the flue is exposed in the workshop for 2.5 m or so above the stove before exiting through a flashed hole in the roof so that most of the heat is dissipated into the workshop. The flue is going a bit rusty now because of rain blown down the cowl over the summer but all up I think I only shelled out £160 or so inc the stove (Relax 2).

Given that I burn mainly free timber (offcuts, sawdust etc) and probably a load (£40) worth of ash/ oak logs over a winter, I would suggest that its efficiency isn't too poor and maybe considered reasonably cost effective.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Streepips]

Tim,

Some good points raised there. I was considering using 4" galv pipe as well, I can get that for £7.50 per 1.5mtr length, its what I get for the extraction system and I am sure it would work efficiently as flue pipe and last a while but decided the thicker stove pipe would provide the better heat store and as you rightly say this is a heat source in itself.
Depending on where i finally decide to fix the stove and run the pipe I will end up with between 2.1 and 2.3 mtrs inside the shop and have built a block wall a metre wide behind it to replace the original ( dwarf block wall and struts and steel sheet, wall lined with 50mm insulation and faced internally with 12mm ply) The blocks will soak heat and radiate it too hope..
I know I could have saved by using galv, or even perhaps by looking for secondhand flue and fittings but I wanted maximum output and efficiency from which is after all quite a small stove, ( the Sun falls about in between the R2and R3 in dimensions) to heat just over 7000 cubic feet, although the idea is to have localised heat and just the chill off the air for the rest of the shop.
Given the efficiency of yours as you described i hope I can say the same of mine when I have been through a winter with it !

 

[tim]

My shop is timber framed with kingspan seconds in the voids. I didn't make any special insulation provision around the stove - it stands n a concrete flag and is is about 400mm from the plasterboard wall. I did put another piece of p'board there which I wrapped in foil - more to protect the wall than for heating the shop.

Yesterday when it was much colder I had to keep opening the workshop door because it was too warm in there c 73 deg! One trick I have learned is on cold days particularly to run the filter unit which obviously circulates the air in the workshop to bring the hot air down and it heats everything up much more quickly.

Cheers

Tim

 

[gasmansteve]

My garage is about 7m x 2.5m wide with the bottom 2m sealed off containing the side entrance door used as an insulated workshop while we housed the car so now I have the remaining 5m for use solely as a wood working shop.
As the side door is part of the bottom end workshop the only access I have is the up and over door and I have thought of changing it to a proper door but SWMBO says that might be detrimental if we ever move ?? don`t know about that, so at present only concrete panels for the walls, bare concrete floor and 10mm thick asbesto type (not real asbestos) corrugated roof so gonna be a wee bit involved fully insulating it all. I think I was a bit optimistic thinking a little wood stove would solve all the heating/condensation/rust issues. :shock:
Cheers
Steve

 

[mister henderson]

If you're using it as a garage-cum-workshop then, would the MR T&G Chipboard also take the weight of a car?

Absolutley, I can personally confirm that.

 

[joelsoo]

btw, can one of these cast iron chimineas be used? just get some aluminium flexi duct pipe and attach it to the end of the chiminea to vent to the outside of the workshop to avoid carbon monoxide poisoning.

i was considering one of these for heating the workshop as intend to buy one for the garden so its for 2 uses.

argos is selling this for only £99 and i think other websites u can get it even cheaper.

 

[Paul.J]

Steve.
What i have done now that i am doing more turning is put up a plastic screen just behind where my lathe is situated cutting the workshop space down to about a third.When my heater goes on now it warms this smaller area up a lot quicker than trying to heat the whole area up.
Then when i'm finished i just roll the plastic sheet up and leave it hanging on the garage roof.I also fixed some timber the length of the sheeting to make it roll up easier and stop it moving around when it's down.
I have also done the same where the garage door is.
Hope this is clear.
Paul.J.

 

[les chicken]

My garage ( workshop really no room for the car ) is 36ft x 9ft.
I have the hotspot R2 which has merely kept me warm and cosy for the last 3 years, SWMBO often comes out and says that it is warmer than the house, a nice dry heat.
I originally had a galvanized flue that has now fallen apart with rust. I replaced it with a 2off 1 metre lengths of vitriol coated flue with a 1off 1metre length of galvanized flue through the roof complete with aladins hat to keep out rain.
The whole lot including delivery from hotspot was £75. The big difference is the heat given out by the vitriol flue is far greater than the galvanized, so I would suggest if you buy the hotspot use the vitriol flue for inside the workshop.

Les

 

[gasmansteve]

What`s your garage made of Les?. The thought of fully insulating my concrete garage is making me balk at present :roll: .
Steve

 

[9fingers]

Steve,

Insulation is not difficult. My workshop is built of concrete blocks.
Block up any holes/gaps/cracks with expanding builders foam
Then make the whole of the inside waterproof by spraying on coats of diluted bitumen emulsion (synthaprufe or similar)
Then batten out with a top and bottom rail and verticals on 400mm centres using pressure treated tiling batten - dirt cheap.
Next add thin sheet polythene to stop the bitumen attacking the insulation.
Infill with 25mm polystyrene slab or kingspan if you are feeling rich.
Finally clad the walls with 22mm shuttering grade (cheap!) ply and paint white with emulsion paint.

Using 22mm ply will mean you can mount almost anyting on the walls just where you want to.

I have made the floor similarly. The roof space has 100mm fibreglass and a ceiling of 6mm MDF and a polythene vapour barrier on the warm side of the insulation.

Bob