Hayward Workbench Build - Finished!

[Bodgers]

So I stole an hour last night to try and get the four legs prepped.

The original drawings, in imperial measures, call for a leg 3"X2". By the time I have planed down this stock to something straight, with parallel sides, I'm down to 44mm (1.7") thicknesses. So basically I am down to laminations to get the thickness.

As I am going to the effort of resawing lengths to do this, I am going to bump the thickness to around 60mm (about 2.5"), with the width at 85mm (about 3.5").

After resawing the thinner strips and planning down, I am facing that typical realisation of just how much timber bites the dust in the stock preparation. Kind of sad really.

Another realisation is how much beech moves; of the stuff I prepped a few days ago I am already seeing some movement in some of the pieces.

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They look like long legs! Are you making the common beginners mistake of planing timber before cutting it to length? Difficult and wasteful.

They are about 40mm over size. That's so I can just cut off any snipe from the thicknesser later. I'd rather do a fraction more planning if I can trim the ends.

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[custard]

So I stole an hour last night to try and get the four legs prepped.

The original drawings, in imperial measures, call for a leg 3"X2". By the time I have planed down this stock to something straight, with parallel sides, I'm down to 44mm (1.7") thicknesses. So basically I am down to laminations to get the thickness.

Bodger's, I admire your determination on this project, but for a guy who's time limited you're making a load of extra work for yourself.

-A leg that's 3" x 1.7" is no different, for all practical purposes, than a leg that's 3" x 2". If you're really concerned than go for 3.5" x 1.7". I'm assuming from your photos that you're hand planing all your components? Previous generations of craftsmen, who did everything by hand, took the cutting list specifications as the opening point for negotiations! They certainly wouldn't have hesitated to amend those dimensions according to the raw materials at hand.

-Laminating from 1.7" to 2" is going to be massively wasteful in time and materials. You really want the lamina to be the same thickness to minimise movement once you've glued up.

-I get that you want to use up your Beech, but another option is PAR softwood for the legs and frame, and save your Beech for the top and front apron.

By the way, I'm not being critical, there are a depressingly high percentage of people on this forum who never make a stick of anything, so anyone actually getting stuck into a meaty project automatically gets my vote. You're in the same position as plenty of others, the tightest restriction on your woodworking is time, so I'm just making some suggestions based on many years of practical experience as to how you might squeeze a bit more productivity from each hour in the workshop.

Good luck!

 

[custard]

I can just cut off any snipe from the thicknesser

My bad, I missed this, didn't realise you had access to machinery.

 

[Bodgers]

Yeah I have a thicknesser. I have bandsaw, but no tablesaw. So basically I'm establishing flat surfaces on one side with a jointer plane (plus edges) by hand, and then running through the thicknesser...

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[Bodgers]

So I stole another hour this evening. More stock preparation. Concentrating on surfacing all 4 sides (square) on the two bottom rails.

I got lucky with the legs as the thinner sides didn't need much squaring off the bandsaw, on these rail pieces they are much longer and I had some work to do to get two sides square to each before running through the thicknesser.

After planing the faces with the thicknesser, I started off with this...

And then after working down the length of the high side I ended up with this...

Square I think.

There was also a long high spot along the length to sort as well (I actually did this first) I am no expert at this, but using a 1M long hard steel ruler I penciled in the high spots across the length and then eventually got one side flat across the length.

So after running the other sides through the thicknesser, I now have two lower rails S4S, basically to length, and ready for joinery. Seems a small victory, but even with a planner and a bandsaw, it is hot work in this weather wielding a heavy wooden jointer plane. Maybe Custard is right about giving myself too much work to do

This is real sweat:

Not sure if my stock prep process is optimal, but I am basically:

1. Ripping the live edge off the slab with a track saw
2. Roughly knocking any extremely high spots off one surface with a hand plane.
3. Bandsaw ripping using the tracksaw cut edge against the fence into strips.
4. Leveling one face by hand
5. Flip and run that through thicknesser
6. Flip and run other face through
7. Square one edge with a jointer plane
8. Run through thicknesser.



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[Just4Fun]

So after running the other sides through the thicknesser, I now have two lower rails S4S, basically to length, and ready for joinery. Seems a small victory, but even with a planner and a bandsaw, it is hot work in this weather wielding a heavy wooden jointer plane.

It may seem like a small victory but I always find that task strangely satisfying if I do a good job. I am curious though why you remark on a wooden plane being heavy. I find wooden planes lighter than metal planes, and often require less effort to use.

Not sure if my stock prep process is optimal, but I am basically:

1. Ripping the live edge off the slab with a track saw
2. Roughly knocking any extremely high spots off one surface with a hand plane.
3. Bandsaw ripping using the tracksaw cut edge against the fence into strips.
4. Leveling one face by hand
5. Flip and run that through thicknesser
6. Flip and run other face through
7. Square one edge with a jointer plane
8. Run through thicknesser.

I am certainly no expert, especially when it comes to using machinery, but I don't understand why you run both faces through the thicknesser even after you level one face by hand. What does the thicknesser do that you don't do by hand?

 

[dzj]

"I am certainly no expert, especially when it comes to using machinery, but I don't understand why you run both faces through the thicknesser even after you level one face by hand. What does the thicknesser do that you don't do by hand?"

You use a hand plane to get rid of twist , bow, etc. and then you run it through the thicknesser.

 

[Jacob]

..........

Not sure if my stock prep process is optimal, but I am basically:

Should have started with a finished design drawing and cutting list

1. Ripping the live edge off the slab with a track saw

OK, but if you had done some cutting to length first you might not have to rip off so much from the edge

2. Roughly knocking any extremely high spots off one surface with a hand plane.

No. Too soon, you don't plane anything until cut to length and ripped to width and depth

3. Bandsaw ripping using the tracksaw cut edge against the fence into strips.

OK but you might consider cutting to length first (from your cutting list) depending on sizes of stock and components

4. Leveling one face by hand

Not until all cut to length i.e. all components sized (plus margin for planing etc) rough sawn. This is absolutely essential and is a basic mistake made by beginners. If very short lengths are involved these can be combined into more easily handled longer lengths but for many projects this won't be the case

5. Flip and run that through thicknesser
6. Flip and run other face through

I suppose that's OK but it's more usual to square one edge first, then mark up thickness and depth before starting on the other two faces

7. Square one edge with a jointer plane
8. Run through thicknesser.

OK!

 

[Bodgers]

So after running the other sides through the thicknesser, I now have two lower rails S4S, basically to length, and ready for joinery. Seems a small victory, but even with a planner and a bandsaw, it is hot work in this weather wielding a heavy wooden jointer plane.

It may seem like a small victory but I always find that task strangely satisfying if I do a good job. I am curious though why you remark on a wooden plane being heavy. I find wooden planes lighter than metal planes, and often require less effort to use.

Not sure if my stock prep process is optimal, but I am basically:

1. Ripping the live edge off the slab with a track saw
2. Roughly knocking any extremely high spots off one surface with a hand plane.
3. Bandsaw ripping using the tracksaw cut edge against the fence into strips.
4. Leveling one face by hand
5. Flip and run that through thicknesser
6. Flip and run other face through
7. Square one edge with a jointer plane
8. Run through thicknesser.

I am certainly no expert, especially when it comes to using machinery, but I don't understand why you run both faces through the thicknesser even after you level one face by hand. What does the thicknesser do that you don't do by hand?

The reason for that is I am hand planing one face just for basic flatness, do it doesn't rock on a flat surface and there is no twist etc, it isn't completely smooth so I run that through the thicknesser as well.

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[Bodgers]

..........

Not sure if my stock prep process is optimal, but I am basically:

Should have started with a finished design drawing and cutting list

1. Ripping the live edge off the slab with a track saw

OK, but if you had done some cutting to length first you might not have to rip off so much from the edge

2. Roughly knocking any extremely high spots off one surface with a hand plane.

No. Too soon, you don't plane anything until cut to length and ripped to width and depth

3. Bandsaw ripping using the tracksaw cut edge against the fence into strips.

OK but you might consider cutting to length first (from your cutting list) depending on sizes of stock and components

4. Leveling one face by hand

Not until all cut to length i.e. all components sized (plus margin for planing etc) rough sawn. This is absolutely essential and is a basic mistake made by beginners. If very short lengths are involved these can be combined into more easily handled longer lengths but for many projects this won't be the case

5. Flip and run that through thicknesser
6. Flip and run other face through

I suppose that's OK but it's more usual to square one edge first, then mark up thickness and depth before starting on the other two faces

7. Square one edge with a jointer plane
8. Run through thicknesser.

OK!

Not sure why you think I don't have a design etc. I have the Hayward basic design and The Pop wood article of the scaled down design which I have scaled back up to metric dimensions.

Point taken on the length cutting, I have the front and back top rails to do next from the next slab, so I will do that.

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[Jacob]

Need design AND cutting list before you touch the timber. Then cut according to the list.
People get used to buying PAR from yards and assume that that is how you prepare timber, but a woodworker does it in a different order and doesn't do long lengths PAR.
Another rule of thumb is to always cut longest lengths and/or biggest sections first, from the smallest pieces of stock. Work through the cutting list in descending order of size and select stock from smallest first

 

[Bodgers]

Some small progress this weekend. I now have four legs (with their laminations) and two stretchers planed and cut roughly to length. I also have have everything else for the frame roughly cut, but needs planing.

Against, Custard's recommendation I pushed on with the uneven sized leg laminations, mainly because I'd already rough cut them and I didn't want to risk them going to waste. Also I am lazy

Anyway, I got a couple of bottles of Titebond extend as I had heard good things about it for laminations and clamped them up.

3 of the legs have come out fine. So good I in fact that you can hardly see the glue line.
Spot the glue line:

One of the legs is less fine. For whatever reason (under clamping or something) there are some small gaps. Aesthetically I am not worried as the frame is being painted. Structurally, time will tell.

Spot the glue line (or gap really):

Hopefully, I won't see any bad things happening due to the uneven size laminations.

Question. One of the short pieces I planed for the rails on the side 'a' frames has some checking in it. I was going to throw some epoxy in there. Or is it too far gone for that?

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[ED65]

That first glue line is a bit good! So great when they're literally invisible.

About the checked piece, I think once that's installed in the structure you'll be fine because it has nowhere to go. Obviously it would be best to make a fresh one without checks, but dried wood that has subsequently cracked can often stay stable because the cracking relieved stresses that needed to be relieved.

If you won't be using this board for a while it would be worth storing it in a plastic bag to maintain the MC.

 

[Bodgers]

That first glue line is a bit good! So great when they're literally invisible.

About the checked piece, I think once that's installed in the structure you'll be fine because it has nowhere to go. Obviously it would be best to make a fresh one without checks, but dried wood that has subsequently cracked can often stay stable because the cracking relieved stresses that needed to be relieved.

If you won't be using this board for a while it would be worth storing it in a plastic bag to maintain the MC.

Thanks, interesting advice on the bag - I will do that. These are slabs sat in my garage workshop for about 18 months, so I wondered what surprises would be in store once I started milling.

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[MusicMan]

I doubt that keeping them in a big would help. Yes it would stop it drying out more, but drying would continue once open up and then it would start to move again.

The checks have occurred because the wood has now become more uniform in water content. They are permanent. If you want, you could run a circular saw along the checks, and fill with a slip of beech. But they won't significantly alter the strength of the bench when assembled.

 

[custard]

Thanks, interesting advice on the bag - I will do that.

That'd be a daft thing to do.

Turners sometimes put wet, part-turned bowls in plastic bags to slow down the drying process and prevent splits. But you're in a completely different situation, you've got seasoned timber and what's more, it's already being stored where it will finally reside. So anything you do to arrest or accelerate it's natural movement will only be storing up problems for later! Don't waste time with foolishness, just crack on and get your bench built.

Looking good by the way, the shakes and the glue line gap are purely cosmetic, they'll make no difference to the final integrity.

 

[Bodgers]

I did as intructed, and cracked on.

Not much progress though as I decided to have a tidy up; things were getting out of hand with all the slab milling.

I have cut the 15 degree angles on the back legs, which I am pretty happy with. I am now coming to terms with the complexity of the joinery of those angles (yes I know I was warned). I was going to cut the tenons on the rails by hand, but I'm now making a 75 degree jig for cutting them on the band saw. We will see if that pans out.

I am about to start ordering some hardware for the knock down elements. Hayward states that the stub tenons with bolts are stronger anyway on the rails. I am ordering M10 cross-dowels rather than just nuts for these, as I think if those were around in 1949 he would have used them.

Question. On the main front apron he suggests screwing it on. In the picture this suggests interference with the joints on the legs at the top. I was thinking of using threaded inserts here, like these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Veda-TYPE-THRE ... ref=plSrch

Will these be strong enough? I was going to have something like M8 bolts (resessed into the front apron) going through the apron into the inserts in the leg. To get a bolt at the top, that will mean putting an insert right where the top mortice/joint is. Not sure if that is an problem, or over thinking.

 

[DTR]

Can't you just arrange the screws so that they miss the tenon in the top rail? I screwed my apron on, no problems so far.

 

[Bodgers]

Maybe. M8 bolts are pretty chunky though. I think they will be close to the mortice.

 

[RickG]

Nice work Bodgers. When I come to build a bench, I hope mine looks half as well made.

Silly question relating to the sloped back legs; will the narrower top restrict the bench-depth available for the threads of the bench vice?
There's a good Sketchup version of this bench at: https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model/ ... ench?hl=en

I'm sure the threads I have on my Record 52 that are waiting to go in are longer than the 10" that's in the Sketchup version I've looked at.