Have I ruined my Waterstones

[Jacob]

Hi

I have attached a picture of the stone.

What was I doing? Here was my obviously destructive sharpening process:

• Soak the stone for about 5-10 minutes
  Use the Ice Bear holder
  Use the course side for lapping the back of chisels and plane iron
  Use Veritas honing guide on course stone to obtain edge
  Every few minutes mark the stones with pencil and flatten with the DMT block
  Use plenty of water throughout
  Use all of the stone for lapping (obviously I haven't)

The DMT was about £60 so it wasn't one of the cheap ones. It is very new as were the stones (about one week old).

So is it the case that I have forgotten to flatten the stones correctly: mistaking believing that erasing the pencil marks achieves flatness?

Again, it's not the end of the world if I have to buy another and any lessons learned are valuable.

Strewth! I'm horrified by the complexity of modern sharpening and the way that beginners have been drawn in.
If you have DMT diamond why are you bothering with waterstones? Use the diamond for sharpening. NB Ezelap are just as good but much cheaper.
Flattening every few minutes? I've never flattened a stone in 50 years. (Well I did once but it was a mistake). Alter your technique to use the whole surface and you won't need to flatten.
Lapping surfaces? Don't bother, it's just one of the new rituals - completely unecessary.
Waterstones? Difficult, messy, short lived, pointless. Oil stones last for life. Diamond last a long time and are the fastest and easiest to use.
Honing guide? Expensive. Unnecessary. Primary cause of problems, particularly the need to flatten stones - they don't work on non flat stones hence the obsession with plate glass, granite slabs etc, all brought in to correct the deficiencies of honing guides

 

[Washy21]

Flattening every few minutes? I've never flattened a stone in 50 years. (Well I did once but it was a mistake). Alter your technique to use the whole surface and you won't need to flatten.
Lapping surfaces? Don't bother, it's just one of the new rituals - completely unecessary.
Waterstones? Difficult, messy, short lived, pointless. Oil stones last for life. Diamond last a long time and are the fastest and easiest to use.
Honing guide? Expensive. Unnecessary. Primary cause of problems, particularly the need to flatten stones - they don't work on non flat stones hence the obsession with plate glass, granite slabs etc, all brought in to correct the deficiencies of honing guides

Thanks for this reply and of course to a complete newcomer the whole process of sharpening has quickly become a monster subject (hammer)

I'm primarily setting out making guitars under one-to-one tuition but of course we can't talk about sharpening all day with so much to get through in so little time. But I have clearly misunderstood my teacher on one or two aspects.

I haven't as yet made new purchases of waterstones and I am investigating other options - although I need to get my tools sharp in the very near future. I might investigate oil stones as well. Again, any advice is welcomed and I'm really pleased that this debate has attracted replies.

 

[deema]

May I suggest an alternative type if stone if your going to buy a new stone. Have you ever considered an Arkansas stone? (Best stones USA). These do not need flattening like a water stone and are probably considered the best hard stone available. They will produce an edge every bit as good as a water stone without all of the mess. You can buy a full set if three stones, soft, hard and black that are 3" wide and about 10" long for circa £400. There is a clear stone that is even finer grained that the black which is super fine. The black stone was used for sharpening scalpels so should give a good enough edge for woodworking! They will last a life time, so overall cost a lot less tan water stones.

I use them myself and changed after getting frustrated of having to keep water sloshing about near electrics and iron beded machines.

 

[Jacob]

I'd have a good look atPaul Sellers vid here
This is about as simple as you can get and very effective.
I'd save excursions into oil stones (esp expensive ones!) until you have mastered the basic technique above.

 

[SurreyHills]

Sharpening and individual preferences are a bit like religion and politics - very personal and can invoke very emotive responses.

I don't think that there is "one perfect system". Ask 4 different woodworkers and you're likely to get at least 4 different responses.

My advice is to look at what tools you are looking to get sharp and how frequently you use them. Then look at the techniques that you think suit your abilities and try them out. Ask others who are using similar tools what sharpening techniques they use. Don't just ask them to describe their sharpening process, first ask them what tools they use and then what techniques they use. Ask them what made then adopt their current regime.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Jacob]

Sharpening and individual preferences are a bit like religion and politics - very personal and can invoke very emotive responses. .....

It certainly seems to be for a lot of people!

Not for me though, I'm just bothered about what's quickest, cheapest, easiest.

 

[Washy21]

Sharpening and individual preferences are a bit like religion and politics - very personal and can invoke very emotive responses. .....

It certainly seems to be for a lot of people!

Not for me though, I'm just bothered about what's quickest, cheapest, easiest.

This reminds me of other subjects that I have engaged in on a professional level, particularly photography I'm with Jacob though: I want to find a no nonsense method that works so that I can get the job done and move on.

Anyway, thanks for all the recent suggestions:

The Arkansas stones sound interesting and I will have to explore these in more depth. At the moment they are out of stock in the USA so maybe this will give me the time to evaluate other methods
The Sellers' video makes the process look dead easy but my only concern here is lack of experience, particularly in the process of maintaining the angle on the bevel. That said it looks really good.

Cheers

 

[nanscombe]

I'm afraid I went a cheap route, Axminster Four Sided Diamond Stone.

I figured it might be better than the oilstone I got with my chisel set for several reasons:
It was relatively cheap, so could be replaced.
I don't have many tools to sharpen, just 2 or 3 Stanley chisels and a Stanley No 4 plane.
Water is easier to get hold of than oil, and less messy.
It's got 4 grits available (200, 300, 400 and 600) rather than the 2 unknowns on my oil stone.

It's doing what I want.

Even cheaper at Machine Mart.

 

[bugbear]

Since you've got waterstones, here's someone (who used to post here) sharpening with waterstones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DT-YwGHgc

BugBear

 

[Washy21]

Since you've got waterstones, here's someone (who used to post here) sharpening with waterstones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DT-YwGHgc

BugBear

Thanks - his workflow is exactly the same as what I was using so I'm not sure what I have done wrong. It is the bit where he uses a diamond stone to flatten the Japanese stone that I don't understand because I can't see how that process guarantees a flat stone without checking with some kind of level device: a straight edge.

How does he avoid getting any dips in the stone because he does appear to be honing in one portion of the stone, i,e. the middle?

 

[carlb40]

Since you've got waterstones, here's someone (who used to post here) sharpening with waterstones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DT-YwGHgc

BugBear

Thanks - his workflow is exactly the same as what I was using so I'm not sure what I have done wrong. It is the bit where he uses a diamond stone to flatten the Japanese stone that I don't understand because I can't see how that process guarantees a flat stone without checking with some kind of level device: a straight edge.

How does he avoid getting any dips in the stone because he does appear to be honing in one portion of the stone, i,e. the middle?

As i mentioned yesterday, the item used for flattening needs to be bigger than the stones. If you look closely at that vid posted, the diamond stone is longer than the waterstones.

 

[Washy21]

Since you've got waterstones, here's someone (who used to post here) sharpening with waterstones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__DT-YwGHgc

BugBear

Thanks - his workflow is exactly the same as what I was using so I'm not sure what I have done wrong. It is the bit where he uses a diamond stone to flatten the Japanese stone that I don't understand because I can't see how that process guarantees a flat stone without checking with some kind of level device: a straight edge.

How does he avoid getting any dips in the stone because he does appear to be honing in one portion of the stone, i,e. the middle?

As i mentioned yesterday, the item used for flattening needs to be bigger than the stones. If you look closely at that vid posted, the diamond stone is longer than the waterstones.

Yeah agreed - indeed it is.

 

[Washy21]

Just to update everyone.

I have bought new standalone stones and a piece of float glass with abrasive paper. I figured that because I knew where I had gone wrong I would try again. My old stone has some life left in it yet but actually I do prefer the larger stones even if they are more expensive.

Thanks for all your input.

 

[carlb40]

I prefered the larger stones aswell. I started off the same - will a combination stone. Enjoy your sharpening