has any one used one of these
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eeyore
Established Member
Hi wood1000
I've had one for about a month - used it on a pseudo-Victorian washstand in maple with black walnut top.
It's a timesaver if you've a lot of identical m/ts to do, and very accurate if you take care in setup. I'd strongly recommend ditching the plastic guide bushes that come with it and replacing them with metal equivalents from Trend - they're about a fiver each and well worth it.
Regards
eeyore
I've had one for about a month - used it on a pseudo-Victorian washstand in maple with black walnut top.
It's a timesaver if you've a lot of identical m/ts to do, and very accurate if you take care in setup. I'd strongly recommend ditching the plastic guide bushes that come with it and replacing them with metal equivalents from Trend - they're about a fiver each and well worth it.
Regards
eeyore
A
Anonymous
Guest
Sorry to labour the same point but I strongly recommend you save your money or better still send it to me.
150 pounds for this jig, waaaahh!@# It is strongle reminisant of the piece of plywood I have hung on my wall for the same purpose at about 50p as for tennons, start to finish I am sure I could cut them twice as fast on a band saw and come to think of if with the 150 pounds saved I could buy an Elektra Beckum band saw and keep it on the side for just that purpose.
Hey wait a minute Elektra Beckum BAS250 170 pounds Trend Jig 150 Pounds that puts it in perspective!
Sorry guys I just hate these overpriced bits of tat and the sooner we stop buying them the better your own skills will develope
150 pounds for this jig, waaaahh!@# It is strongle reminisant of the piece of plywood I have hung on my wall for the same purpose at about 50p as for tennons, start to finish I am sure I could cut them twice as fast on a band saw and come to think of if with the 150 pounds saved I could buy an Elektra Beckum band saw and keep it on the side for just that purpose.
Hey wait a minute Elektra Beckum BAS250 170 pounds Trend Jig 150 Pounds that puts it in perspective!
Sorry guys I just hate these overpriced bits of tat and the sooner we stop buying them the better your own skills will develope
eeyore
Established Member
Stevezm
The question was "has anyone used one of these"
The answer in your case would appear to be 'no' :roll:
I find it curious that you profess a strong objection to other people using a time-saving gadget (of which, presumably, you have no first-hand experience) and then go on to claim that it's quicker and easier to use a different gadget! Bandsawing a tenon is hardly a traditional method.
Use of a gadget doesn't always mean a lack of skill - I was cutting mortises and tenons by hand before decimalisation. Nowadays I'm quite satisfied to use a 'gadget' if it gives accurate results in a fraction of the time
If you don't want to buy or use one yourself, that's your choice. If you have tried the gadget in question and don't like it, fair enough. An informed opinion is one thing, but I take issue with people pontificating about what others choose to spend their money on.
Presumably you've similar feelings about WoodRats, thickness planers, table saws - in fact, anything that uses that newfangled electrickery...
Regards
eeyore
who won't be sending you any money, now or ever ...
The question was "has anyone used one of these"
The answer in your case would appear to be 'no' :roll:
I find it curious that you profess a strong objection to other people using a time-saving gadget (of which, presumably, you have no first-hand experience) and then go on to claim that it's quicker and easier to use a different gadget! Bandsawing a tenon is hardly a traditional method.
Use of a gadget doesn't always mean a lack of skill - I was cutting mortises and tenons by hand before decimalisation. Nowadays I'm quite satisfied to use a 'gadget' if it gives accurate results in a fraction of the time
If you don't want to buy or use one yourself, that's your choice. If you have tried the gadget in question and don't like it, fair enough. An informed opinion is one thing, but I take issue with people pontificating about what others choose to spend their money on.
Presumably you've similar feelings about WoodRats, thickness planers, table saws - in fact, anything that uses that newfangled electrickery...
Regards
eeyore
who won't be sending you any money, now or ever ...
A
Anonymous
Guest
Ow! Tetchy Eeyore
Tools that speed things up Yum, Yum love em to death. Fact is I can't get enough.
You have a point Eeyore, thank-you. I never lookdown upon techno advances, I have more than my fair share of power tools and gizmos. I am simply pointing out (not to you or anyone directly) where the idea for many jigs originate from and the, plain, fact that they are easy to make, with a modicum of patience.
I visited Asia some years back I saw a number of what are attributed as Japanese Draw saws. I didn't tell them they were troglodytes for not having a Bosch Jigsaw, I was amazed at the fact they had developed a better system than ours and promptly bought several for the return trip. This was before they were readily available here.
Sorry to if I pinned your tail on the wrong place. You I can't expect someone that has one of these tools to hold there hand up and say 'only a fool would part with his money and buy one'. I hope, however, that you would agree that only some one who thinks you would be a fool to buy one is qualified to make this statement.
I have used similar jigs and have yet to see one made that could be more effective than the one a learned old cabinet maker taught me to make some twenty years ago his method then was Simple But Effective not Simple and expensive.
I suppose I should have just said in answer to Wood1000 question
'No'
Perhaps? That answer would have been a tad short and somewhat un-constructive
Sorry Eeyore I just have a thing about rip offs and will continue to voice my opinion when confronted. Just don't take me too seriously
Tools that speed things up Yum, Yum love em to death. Fact is I can't get enough.
You have a point Eeyore, thank-you. I never lookdown upon techno advances, I have more than my fair share of power tools and gizmos. I am simply pointing out (not to you or anyone directly) where the idea for many jigs originate from and the, plain, fact that they are easy to make, with a modicum of patience.
I visited Asia some years back I saw a number of what are attributed as Japanese Draw saws. I didn't tell them they were troglodytes for not having a Bosch Jigsaw, I was amazed at the fact they had developed a better system than ours and promptly bought several for the return trip. This was before they were readily available here.
Sorry to if I pinned your tail on the wrong place. You I can't expect someone that has one of these tools to hold there hand up and say 'only a fool would part with his money and buy one'. I hope, however, that you would agree that only some one who thinks you would be a fool to buy one is qualified to make this statement.
I have used similar jigs and have yet to see one made that could be more effective than the one a learned old cabinet maker taught me to make some twenty years ago his method then was Simple But Effective not Simple and expensive.
I suppose I should have just said in answer to Wood1000 question
'No'
Perhaps? That answer would have been a tad short and somewhat un-constructive
Sorry Eeyore I just have a thing about rip offs and will continue to voice my opinion when confronted. Just don't take me too seriously
my 2 penn`ath:
surely anything that makes woodworking more accessible to the "less skilled person" (such as myself) is a big plus!
I may not be able to cut perfect tennons with traditional methods, but if there is a device out there that enables me to see good results (without getting peaved/frustrated) then surely ALL THE BETTER
you have to remember, not EVERYone has YOUR plywood template on thier wall, not EVERYone has the means to make such a cheap/effective device THEMSELVES. (not everyone is blessed with fine qualities such as COMMON SENSE in excessive amounts :wink: )
I`m not saying ANYONE is right or wrong, just that, personally i would give such a device a try. And that if it encourages more people into our beloved hobby/trade/interest then that has to be good!!
surely anything that makes woodworking more accessible to the "less skilled person" (such as myself) is a big plus!
I may not be able to cut perfect tennons with traditional methods, but if there is a device out there that enables me to see good results (without getting peaved/frustrated) then surely ALL THE BETTER
you have to remember, not EVERYone has YOUR plywood template on thier wall, not EVERYone has the means to make such a cheap/effective device THEMSELVES. (not everyone is blessed with fine qualities such as COMMON SENSE in excessive amounts :wink: )
I`m not saying ANYONE is right or wrong, just that, personally i would give such a device a try. And that if it encourages more people into our beloved hobby/trade/interest then that has to be good!!
A
Anonymous
Guest
So..... what's wrong with biscuits, anyway 
?
(I'll close the door on my way out)
Gill
?(I'll close the door on my way out)
Gill
Martin
Established Member
I have to agree with Steve on this one - I'm all for gizmos, particularly if they make a difficult/complex job easier (and my workshop has a fair number of them already :wink: ), but IMHO the jig in question is a bit of a rip off.
Surely you can make something that is equally effective (but maybe not quite as sophisticated) with two bits of plywood, a thin bit of MDF with a hole in it, four screws and a few G clamps :shock:.
There's a huge amount of information, plans and tips for such jigs available - pick up Patrick Speilman's New Router Handbook (for about 12 quid I think) and you'll get advice on this and many other jigs for Routers.
It's also worth remembering that these jigs are often only as good as the setup time that you put into them - the perfect end result isn't always guaranteed, no matter how much money you spend on them.
I understand the point about accessibility, but surely the act of making and using your own jigs will add more to your understanding (and skill) of woodwork than any shop bought jig will....
Just my 2 cents...
Cheers,
Martin.
Surely you can make something that is equally effective (but maybe not quite as sophisticated) with two bits of plywood, a thin bit of MDF with a hole in it, four screws and a few G clamps :shock:.
There's a huge amount of information, plans and tips for such jigs available - pick up Patrick Speilman's New Router Handbook (for about 12 quid I think) and you'll get advice on this and many other jigs for Routers.
It's also worth remembering that these jigs are often only as good as the setup time that you put into them - the perfect end result isn't always guaranteed, no matter how much money you spend on them.
I understand the point about accessibility, but surely the act of making and using your own jigs will add more to your understanding (and skill) of woodwork than any shop bought jig will....
Just my 2 cents...
Cheers,
Martin.
A
Anonymous
Guest
As a relative newbie to this sawdust making lark, I can certainly undertsnad the desire to purchase jigs, but I can see what SteveZM & Martin are on about. The jig shown (and the pocket-hole jig in another thread) certainly look straightforward to fabricate. The real problem in one of self-confidence i.e. believing fully that you can make one that works just as well as the shop-bought one. A more experienced sawdust producer would be happier to make his/her own jigs
Martin hits the nail on the head when he says
I think that what may be daunting people is the design of these jigs, not the their actual construction. Fortunately, I can still remeber my tech drawing classes some 20+ years ago so I might stand a chance of making some of these jigs if I need to. I am forced to make my own jigs cause I've spent all my money on power tools
I have made a couple of jigs for use in my workshop including a tennoning jig. Version 1 of the tenoning jig is OK, but I have learned a few things, so version 2 will be better. This is all part of the fun of woodworking, learning & improving as I go along. When I look at my workbench, I wouln't design nor make it like that now, but it suffices for the moment & I have learned a few lessons.
Martin hits the nail on the head when he says
I think that what may be daunting people is the design of these jigs, not the their actual construction. Fortunately, I can still remeber my tech drawing classes some 20+ years ago so I might stand a chance of making some of these jigs if I need to. I am forced to make my own jigs cause I've spent all my money on power tools
I have made a couple of jigs for use in my workshop including a tennoning jig. Version 1 of the tenoning jig is OK, but I have learned a few things, so version 2 will be better. This is all part of the fun of woodworking, learning & improving as I go along. When I look at my workbench, I wouln't design nor make it like that now, but it suffices for the moment & I have learned a few lessons.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thanks Martin & Chris, I think you have hit the nail on the head
A less skilled woodworker will continue to remain Less Skilled if he/she doesn't try to solve problems using their own skills.
Fortunately every one does have the common sense to make their own jigs, without exception! and making them ads to you skill base without emptying your pockets
I can relate with Chris on the Mark I Mark II versions of his tennon Jig, Most of my jigs have room for improvement and thats gaining experience is all about
A less skilled woodworker will continue to remain Less Skilled if he/she doesn't try to solve problems using their own skills.
Fortunately every one does have the common sense to make their own jigs, without exception! and making them ads to you skill base without emptying your pockets
I can relate with Chris on the Mark I Mark II versions of his tennon Jig, Most of my jigs have room for improvement and thats gaining experience is all about
i could`nt disagree more!
surely a "less skilled woodworker" would have plenty of trouble (as some people have pointed out) adjusting said expensive jig to give a good/perfect joint let-alone have the head-ache of making thier own jig!!!!
personally I`d have a go at building a jig, but to say
>> "Fortunately every one does have the common sense to make their own jigs, without exception! "
....... is just rubbish!
surely a company like trend who has obviously spent SOME development time/money on this jig, are`nt going to produce "useless tat". And to pass of said jig as "useless tat" is again complete rubbish.
in my opinion the trend jig would be a "nice-aty" to own, expensive, maybe a luxury, but if i had the money I`d get one.
most people enjoy having "nice stuff" thats what lifes all about.......
surely a "less skilled woodworker" would have plenty of trouble (as some people have pointed out) adjusting said expensive jig to give a good/perfect joint let-alone have the head-ache of making thier own jig!!!!
personally I`d have a go at building a jig, but to say
>> "Fortunately every one does have the common sense to make their own jigs, without exception! "
....... is just rubbish!
surely a company like trend who has obviously spent SOME development time/money on this jig, are`nt going to produce "useless tat". And to pass of said jig as "useless tat" is again complete rubbish.
in my opinion the trend jig would be a "nice-aty" to own, expensive, maybe a luxury, but if i had the money I`d get one.
most people enjoy having "nice stuff" thats what lifes all about.......
A
Anonymous
Guest
I Think that just about sums it up. I don't feel a head ache comming on when I make a jig. Does Anyone Else? May I suggest sanding down a panadol (mask off) before you try.
Many a thread has debated Why? the Brits can't produce a descent woodworking programe to match Norms. There is your answer.
We want prepacked pop groups, food and tools
Unfortunately stevenprigg's opinion is far from Un common in this great nation of ours and along with with the ability to produce journeymen Carpenters in favour of the bloke who owns a hammer is the chippy is long since gone, it would seem.
I can afford the jig and I can also afford to pay someone to make the things I make but what pleasure and learning I would get from that escapes me.
One last note on always using other peoples made products to get the job done The New Yankee Logo you use has the letters T.M. printed in the corner I assume you have paid Mr. Abram for the use of his logo? After all as you say companies don't put all that work into making something for no reason. :wink:
Sorry I couldn't resist that, I really don't care a toss
Many a thread has debated Why? the Brits can't produce a descent woodworking programe to match Norms. There is your answer.
We want prepacked pop groups, food and tools
Unfortunately stevenprigg's opinion is far from Un common in this great nation of ours and along with with the ability to produce journeymen Carpenters in favour of the bloke who owns a hammer is the chippy is long since gone, it would seem.
I can afford the jig and I can also afford to pay someone to make the things I make but what pleasure and learning I would get from that escapes me.
One last note on always using other peoples made products to get the job done The New Yankee Logo you use has the letters T.M. printed in the corner I assume you have paid Mr. Abram for the use of his logo? After all as you say companies don't put all that work into making something for no reason. :wink:
Sorry I couldn't resist that, I really don't care a toss
what a gr8 attitude u have, well done
you obviously care a toss thats y you reply to these threads.
as for using norm`s logo.... is supposed to be a bit of a joke.... prehaps that one passed you by some time ago?
good one, we really need people like you *NOT*
I`m the first to admit, I`m of the younger generation (I.e. I`m not norms age)..... I`m not overflowing in common sense.... but I`m certainly not thick (i think the degree [with honour] in electronic engineering prooves that). If you take the time to re-read my thread i stated that I WOULD have a go at making jigs my self, but I also am prepared to consider that some people may not have the ability to come up with the design for the jig themselves!
YOU were the one who made the sweeping statement that the trend jig was (i quote) " tat".
you may be older/wiser/more experienced than me.... you may not. But i put it to you that not everyone in here has YOUR abilities.
prehaps all of us should think alittle more before giving advise out on forums?
debating things....... good
giving opinions....... good
offending/having digs/generally having a "go"....... counter-productive
you obviously care a toss thats y you reply to these threads.
as for using norm`s logo.... is supposed to be a bit of a joke.... prehaps that one passed you by some time ago?
good one, we really need people like you *NOT*
I`m the first to admit, I`m of the younger generation (I.e. I`m not norms age)..... I`m not overflowing in common sense.... but I`m certainly not thick (i think the degree [with honour] in electronic engineering prooves that). If you take the time to re-read my thread i stated that I WOULD have a go at making jigs my self, but I also am prepared to consider that some people may not have the ability to come up with the design for the jig themselves!
YOU were the one who made the sweeping statement that the trend jig was (i quote) " tat".
you may be older/wiser/more experienced than me.... you may not. But i put it to you that not everyone in here has YOUR abilities.
prehaps all of us should think alittle more before giving advise out on forums?
debating things....... good
giving opinions....... good
offending/having digs/generally having a "go"....... counter-productive
sawdustalley
Established Member
While were on the discussion of jigs. This morning, I ordered a dovetail jig !
Should be here withing the next few days, I certainly hope it's not 'tat'
I'm not quite sure how one would make their own dovetail jig and evpect accurate uniform results. Might be worth a try !
Should be here withing the next few days, I certainly hope it's not 'tat'
I'm not quite sure how one would make their own dovetail jig and evpect accurate uniform results. Might be worth a try !
A
Anonymous
Guest
sawdustalley":1hjgt7rh said:
answer: very very carefully
Seriously folks, Let's not squabble - we all have the choice:-
buy jigs vs. make jigs
use power tools vs. use hand tools
everybody does woodwork for different reasons with different priorities. I am happy to experiment making jigs provided that I can have time to refine them before using them to make a large ( and expensive ) piece of furniture, but will buy a jig if I fel that the outlay is worth the "peace of mind" i.e. not ruining a few lengths of timber & wasting a few hours/days work. It's a little like buying insurance I suppose. I'm simply swapping my money for the benefit of somebody else's experience.
But of course just coz I buy a jig, doesn't mean to say I know how to use one :?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Calm down Stevie boy, it's effecting your writing. I'm enjoying the little conflict as much as the next. Your first post was having a go at me and as far as I'm aware we've never even crossed your path in a thread B4.
Don't show immaturity let alone insecurity by crying you have a degree (WITH HONORS) It's just not clever and sad to say in the real world there one a penny and frankly prove nothing.
I'm not the one who started with a reply to two threads in as many Minutes with "I couldn't disagree more!" Now there's confrontational
I respect you for saying you would have a go and that is all I would ask of anyone, before they throw in the towel and buy nothing but expensive factory made jigs
I what I meant about the Norm thing was I really shouldn't have said about it, it doesn't bother me in the least, Sorry
Steve
Older (probably not) Wiser (wouldn't care to comment) More Experienced (I think so)
Don't show immaturity let alone insecurity by crying you have a degree (WITH HONORS) It's just not clever and sad to say in the real world there one a penny and frankly prove nothing.
I'm not the one who started with a reply to two threads in as many Minutes with "I couldn't disagree more!" Now there's confrontational
I respect you for saying you would have a go and that is all I would ask of anyone, before they throw in the towel and buy nothing but expensive factory made jigs
I what I meant about the Norm thing was I really shouldn't have said about it, it doesn't bother me in the least, Sorry
Steve
Older (probably not) Wiser (wouldn't care to comment) More Experienced (I think so)
Martin
Established Member
I think you two should agree to disagree and leave it at that. You both have valid opinions IMHO, but this thread is in danger of getting off topic, which is woodwork (which let's not forget is the reason we're all here contributing to this site).
I sentence you both to 2 hours hard labour in the workshop (which usually helps me to get rid of the stresses of the day) :wink:
Seriously though, let's not allow flame wars to start up on this forum...
James:
On the dovetail jig I would certainly go for it - tenoning jigs are one thing, but I wouldn't attempt to make a dovetail jig myself (even though there are plans around for things like this). Would be interested to hear how you get on if you do order one...
Cheers,
Martin.
I sentence you both to 2 hours hard labour in the workshop (which usually helps me to get rid of the stresses of the day) :wink:
Seriously though, let's not allow flame wars to start up on this forum...
James:
On the dovetail jig I would certainly go for it - tenoning jigs are one thing, but I wouldn't attempt to make a dovetail jig myself (even though there are plans around for things like this). Would be interested to hear how you get on if you do order one...
Cheers,
Martin.
A
Anonymous
Guest
On the subject of dovetail jigs, which one to buy?
Leigh?
Trend?
Woodrat?
Other?
Have I just lit the touch-paper for another flame-war? :shock: :? :wink:
Leigh?
Trend?
Woodrat?
Other?
Have I just lit the touch-paper for another flame-war? :shock:
:? :wink:
A
Anonymous
Guest
Two hours Later a sufficiently chastised Thanks Martin
And sorry for any unease. You're right.
Back on track I agree Dovetail jigs are a great plus, anyone who has cut them with a tennon saw and chisel will attest to that.
I am really interested in the Woodrat that you all seem to praise. Sad to admit I have never seen one in the flesh. Are they really 300 ponds plus? and are they really worth that much money. Thats a lot of coffee
When I get my camera back from my brother I will try and post some jig's for my pocket hole screws and my simple mortice jig with instruction on how to make. They are really easy and effective but if I hadn't have been shown them many years back who knows what I would be using today.
And sorry for any unease. You're right.
Back on track I agree Dovetail jigs are a great plus, anyone who has cut them with a tennon saw and chisel will attest to that.
I am really interested in the Woodrat that you all seem to praise. Sad to admit I have never seen one in the flesh. Are they really 300 ponds plus? and are they really worth that much money. Thats a lot of coffee
When I get my camera back from my brother I will try and post some jig's for my pocket hole screws and my simple mortice jig with instruction on how to make. They are really easy and effective but if I hadn't have been shown them many years back who knows what I would be using today.
i saw the woodrat at this years international woodworking show at ali-pali...... there was alot of people around the exhibit, it was certainly popular.
I`d also never seen one before, can anyone explain what the advantages of the woodrat r?
I`d also never seen one before, can anyone explain what the advantages of the woodrat r?
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