hardening spalted wood?

[peteb]

my first post here - hi all!

I turned my first piece of spalted wood the other day (beech I think.)

I was happy with the end result - but the wood was so spongey (soft enough I could dig out huge chunks with a fingernail) - I had to use vast quantities of zap CA.

Was the wood too far gone?

Are there better hardening products for turning?

Cheers, Peter

 

[cornucopia]

hello and welcome

sounds like the wood was too far gone-
I use allot of spalted wood and my opinion is: using some ca on soft area is o.k, but an excessive amount of ca looks awful and is an irriant in the workshop

on smaller areas sanding sealer will also work and is less irritating than ca

some people use wood hardener inteneded for the repair/maintenece of exterior windows etc- i strongly advise you not to use this prodouct the fumes in a confined space are dangerous and the dust from sanding is very very dangerous, its just a piece of wood- it does grow on trees- is it worth the risk? Not in my opinion, throw away and get on with turning something else

you can also try a diluted mix of pva- soaking the piece in the soloution overnight then allowing it to dry before turning.
hope this helps

 

[tekno.mage]

Hello Peter and welcome to the forum.

Spalted wood can be a bit of a nightmare. It has the potential to look amazing, but as Cornucopia has said it sounds like your piece was really too far gone. I made the mistake of turning my first ever bowl from some very spalted sycamore - and I'm sure the finished item was more sanding sealer than wood in several places!

I now discard any wood that's so soft I can easily stick a fingernail in it. I've used both CA glue and sanding sealer to harden up small areas of soft wood since then, but I must admit I don't like the way CA glue can spread and darken the wood. I've also tried the wood hardener Cornucopia mentioned - but it is very expensive and unpleasant to work with.

I haven't yet tried soaking in dilute PVA - which sounds like a really good idea as I'd already vaguely thought about soaking small spalted blanks in diluted sanding sealer overnight, but didn't have enough sanding sealer left to try this when I had the thought... Thanks for that tip, Cornucopia. I already use PVA to seal the ends of logs etc as it's cheap, easily obtainable and easy to clear up afterwards.

tekno.mage

 

[Paul.J]

Hello Pete and welcome

 

[TEP]

With all respect to George, I have been using Ronseal Wet Rot Hardener off and on for years now to harden some overly soft woods. (Don't want to get into the discussion whether it is worth it or not :wink: )

Anyway I was concerned when he says that it is dangerous to use inside, and when sanding. I have just contacted Ronseal Product Advice and according to them there is no health problem known as such. The thinners used in the product is Acetone, and the rest of the ingredients are Ketone resins, used in many paint and varnish products.

Well I do know Acetone and other than being very aromatic once dried off it is harmless. Also they say there are no known health effects directly from the resins, other that in this context, the airborne dust problem. Which we should be guarding against anyway.

The only thing the lady did emphasise was that this product is not meant as a surface layer, it is meant to be absorbed into the wood so as the resins can strengthen the damaged timber.

So for one. if I think the piece of wood is worth it I will continue using this product.

PS - Welcome to the forum Pete. Should have mentioned it earlier . As you can see using wood with rot is a contentious subject, as with most of this hobby it all comes down to what you like yourself. Also don't forget ANY sort of spalting is rot in one form or another.

 

[wizer]

Welcome Pete

(soft enough I could dig out huge chunks with a fingernail)

IMO the wood was too far gone.

 

[CHJ]

Welcome to the forum Pete, I too have struggled on and used ultra soft wood in the past just because I liked the look of it, I tend to err on the side of Cornucopia's assessment now and if I can work it with a fingernail (other than very small areas) consign it to the firewood bin.

I do regularly use Sanding sealer well soaked in at times on such as spalted Beech to even out the hardness levels to aid final cuts and any sanding.

 

[Jenx]

HI Pete, welcome along ! 8)

I can ruin good wood, just as well as I can ruin soft punky stuff :wink: :lol:
But thats all part of the fun & learning ...
you'll get lots of great, friendly constructive advice here...
Look forward to seeing some piccies, when you get around to it.

All the best, and great to see you 8)

 

[user 5053]

Its not worth messing about if it is too soft. Chuck it in the stove.

 

[peteb]

wow - there's some interesting replies there. thanks.

@cornucopia: how long does a pva soaking like that need to dry out?

@tekno.mage: yeah - yep, I know too well how CA can darken the wood! "splash it all over" and the problem goes away!

@Tam: does the Ronseal product stain?

I use (acrylic) sanding sealer now and then. It never seems to soak in too deep. and then it clogs the sandpaper. Am I too impatient?

I'm not sure I wouldn't turn wood like this again - the result was gorgeous!

 

[TEP]

Mornin' Pete.

Ronseal doesn't stain as it is a clear liquid, but it DOES effect the final finishing coats.

IME any and all these sealer's/binders effect the wood colour to some extent, primarily because the repaired area is sealed and a lot less absorbent than the surrounding wood. As T-M says, 'splash it all over'. What I try to do is never put the stuff on if you are working on the final surface so as you can always take a few cuts after treatment. Or put it on with a small brush and keep the treatment to the damaged area alone. (I only do this if the soft area is a different colour to the surrounding wood. 'spalted') Again this is not a 100% cure, if you seal wood it WILL look different to unsealed when coated with a finish. I only use it if I really want to try and save the piece. I tend to throw more than I try to save, it's got to be worth the trouble IMO.

If your paper is clogging I would say YES, I leave any repairs like this at least overnight. Unless it is CA glue.

 

[big soft moose]

a bit left field thius but ive had good results in soaking the wood overnight in a mixture of washing up liquid and alcohol ( I used cheap vodka but pure alcohol is probably as good)

this doesnt harden it per se but it does seem to make it cut more easily with less tearing - probably something to do with lubricating the cut, you do need very sharp gouges tho and scrapers are still a no no.

that said if its very punky this might not work so well - i generally recon if you can scratch lumps out its too far gone for anything but firewood.

NB: I have also used the above mixture on very dry and dusty oak as a reviver which made it considerably easier to turn - it doesnt seem to effect a wax top coat , but oil doesnt like it.

 

[cornucopia]

hello pete- if you soak the piece in 3 parts water to 1 part pva overnight it will take about 24 hours to fully dry depending on the time of year.

 

[peteb]

finally had a chance to grab a few pics of the bowl in question:









CA was mainly used just to harden on the top surface. Some of the areas on the base and sides also has a bit of sawdust filling added.

 

[pete honeyman]

I like that a lot - great colour variation, and well executed. I even like the gloss, which I wouldn't have gone for myself.

PeteII

 

[Paul.J]

Seeing it now i would say it was well worth the effort
Would you do it all again :?:

 

[Jenx]

Second what Paul said...
Nice job !
Thats an attractive bowl... great ! 8) 8)