hand tool startup

[selly]

where would you start with a good quality but not completely indulgent hand tool list? I mean LV/LN/Clifton stuff is affordable but as long as I don't have to buy too many.

3 planes surely enough and a couple of saws? Specific tool suggestions welcome but not wishing to open up a "mines better than yours" can o worms!

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Really depends what you want to do with them (in terms of power tool usage and stock preparation.)

If I were to try and cut down my tool list to those quantities, it would be

plough plane (s/h Record 043 would do the trick, though I prefer my Stanley 43)
low angle adjustible mouth block plane (LN or LV)
jointer (Clico/LV/LN)

dovetail (MikeW/adria/LN)
14" tenon (ditto)

But then I would also really need a small router (LV/LN or s/h Record/Stanley), rip saw (MikeW or s/h Disston, Spear and Jackson, Tyzack etc), panel saw (MikeW or s/h Tyzack, Disstion etc) coping saw or small frame saw

Would also need one good mortice chisel (3/8" or 1/4") and two or three bevel edge chisels (I'd probably start with 1/8", 1/4" and 1")

Then you'd get fed up adjusting the jointer for smoothing and want a smoother too. I think many would suggest a jack instead of a jointer as a starting bench plane, and many would probably use a tailed router or just saw and chisel for ploughing grooves and rebates.

Cheers
Steve

 

[mr]

Any three planes from those 3 plane brands. One has to be the Veritas Low angle jack (LN have a version as well - but I have no experience of it), to that I would add a jointer I have the LN 7 1/2 but Clifton and Veritas have hightly regarded models too. Taking up the last spot in the trio of planes either a smoother or a block plane. I think I would go for a block plane the Veritas jack can double as a smoother for now. Alternately You can always get in touch with the likes of Mike Hancock at Classic Handtools and pick up a refurbished plane for fewer pennies. There are bargains to be had on the bay but it's a bit of a minefield to be honest.

As for saws I recall being very impressed with Philly's Spehar but I don't think they make saws any more. One day I'll have a Wenzloff or two , for now I use B&Q throwaway saws they work perfectly well with the exception of the throwaway tenon saws & I've never found a good one yet. If you're prepared to put the time and energy in learning to sharpen then It appears that any old saw (within bounds) can be pressed into service and give good results.
Hope that helps
Cheers Mike

 

[selly]

thanks for the advice so far I'm listening.

I should add that whilst lots of you write about "the slope" and collecting etc. I don't really want to go down that route. I am looking for good quality, pleasant to use effective tools that will be well used and last. I would be a bit gutted if I felt I was going down the slope! (too much £)!

I still want to use power tools for a lot of jobs. Just want to slot in hand tools.

 

[woodbloke]

Selly wrote:

write about "the slope" and collecting etc. I don't really want to go down that route......

......yet :roll: - Rob

 

[bugbear]

where would you start with a good quality but not completely indulgent hand tool list? I mean LV/LN/Clifton stuff is affordable but as long as I don't have to buy too many.

3 planes surely enough and a couple of saws? Specific tool suggestions welcome but not wishing to open up a "mines better than yours" can o worms!

Are you coming from a "I have and use power tools, but wish to try hand tools" perspective, or a "I want to start woodwork, and would prefer handtools" perspective?

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Selly,

It all depends what you want to do with the planes. If you want to plane mainly soft wood or sweetly grained hardwoods, then you can make most planes work reasonably well (although you might have to do a bit of sole flattening and things like that). But if you want to plane really hard wood or stuff with difficult grain, then you want something better.

At the moment I'm planing what seems like miles of oak. I have both Record and Clifton planes. The Records, set up normally, make really hard work of it. The Cliftons, on the other hand, are in a different league. It's a combination of things - the greater weight; the better precision; the better, thicker blades; the Bedrock frogs. They will take beautiful shavings from stuff that the Records won't touch.

I've turned some of my Records into scrub-type planes (wide mouth and very steeply cambered blades) which I use to hog off large quantities of wood. Here's me hogging off thick shavings of oak with my Record #7 "scrub"

[/url][/img]

But for finishing I will use my Cliftons

With regard to what to buy, if you want just three I would go for a Clifton #7, a Clifton #4 1/2 and a Veritas low angle block plane. Then buy some cheap Records second-hand and turn them into scrub planes

I should add that my views are those of someone who has no machinery. If you have, or will be getting, a planer, saw bench and the like, you might want to choose something else.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Alf]

Are you coming from a "I have and use power tools, but wish to try hand tools" perspective, or a "I want to start woodwork, and would prefer handtools" perspective?

An important point. In addition, perhaps the best way to avoid The Slope is to only buy one plane and one saw, see what you can't do with them, and then buy accordingly.

Cheers, Alf

 

[woodbloke]

Seriously, Alf has a good point. A lot of good work can be produced with the minimum of hand tools. If one plane is purchased then I think a No5 of some description and one saw then possibly a 200 or 250mm tenon saw. New or second hand depends again on budget, older planes are generally better than new ones but may need some work done, better to have a look at older ones in a shop if possible than buy off fleabay. If the budget could accomodate it then a Record or Stanley low angle block plane would be very useful and if more of a 'topendy' approach were contemplated then I would consider offerings from LN, LV or Clifton - Rob

 

[newt]

Interesting thread, I wonder what all you folk would say if you had to be limited to only 10 tools, this would include measuring, marking, machining (hand or power). Could you make a reasonable range of furniture with just 10?.

 

[woodbloke]

Pete - I think not if this were to include cramps, even to glue up a smallish project might call for a number of them leaving little scope for any other tools - Rob

 

[newt]

Rob good point clamps not included. I am only really asking this question to expand on the original post it may help a beginner.

 

[pam niedermayer]

Interesting thread, I wonder what all you folk would say if you had to be limited to only 10 tools, this would include measuring, marking, machining (hand or power). Could you make a reasonable range of furniture with just 10?.

I think so. I once built a darkroom with about 10 tools, probably less, one of which was a crummy contractor's saw. To build furniture (darkroom tables and sinks are mostly carpentry), with quality joinery, would probably take a few more.

Pam

 

[woodbloke]

Pete - :-k here's my ten, not including cramps:
Marking out - marking knife, 6" engineers square, 300mm steel rule, cutting gauge
Cutting - No5 jack, 250mm tenon saw, 6mm and 12mm chisels
Maintenance - fine DMT stone........
and No10....a good bench to work on 8) , vice included? - Rob

 

[Wiley Horne]

Selly,

Here's a little different take.....The job calls for its tools. Handcut dovetails want somewhat different tools than mortise and tenon. Rough cutting lumber to length uses different saws than sawing joinery. So one option is to pick a goal or project, and let that get you started. Such as,

1. Learn how to use, sharpen, and maintain a saw, a chisel, and a bench plane. Nothing beyond that for the moment.

2. Cope some molding to fit in my house.

3. Inlay holly stringing on a dark table top.

4. Make hand cut dovetails for a drawer.

5. Carve some drawer pulls.

6. Turn some bed posts.

7. Make a blanket chest.

Each one of these tasks has its own tool kit. Plus some way to sharpen the tools. Plus some way to hold the work--bench/vise of some kind. If you start with a specific thing you want to do, you'll end up with (1) the right tools, (2) the knowledge of how to sharpen and maintain them, (3) the satisfaction of having accomplished something for the money you've spent. Then you do another thing the same way.

Wiley

 

[newt]

Interesting Rob, its difficult to imagine any job without an engineers square or equivalent. I imagine some folk can do quite good work with the minimum of tools. My school teacher said that it makes you think more about how you are going to do the work, but most of us these days have the luxury (?) of having several types of tools that do the same job.

 

[pam niedermayer]

...Here's a little different take.....The job calls for its tools. Handcut dovetails want somewhat different tools than mortise and tenon....

Wiley, while I agree with you in principal, in practise the only tool I had to add to a nothing toolkit was a backsaw to do perfect tails first time (I didn't have any hand saw at all at the time). I also added a marking gauge, but certainly didn't have to do so, a ruler with pencil could have done the marking job.

Pam

 

[Ace Karner]

Pam, please tell us how you removed all the waste between the tails and pins with nothing but a backsaw.

ace

 

[MooreToolsPlease]

Probably chisel away the waste

 

[Wiley Horne]

Pam,

Just to clarify. I know it's possible to do something--maybe a lot--with 10 tools. But I notice none of us are scuffling along with 10 tools. That's why I don't recommend it to Selly--it's not what I do, and it's not how I would get started if I were getting started again. I'd get started by having a goal, or a project, and getting the right tools for that job. Then repeat.

I agree that the '10 tool approach' is valid; I just don't subscribe to it.

Wiley