hand saws

[apprenticekate]

I started a boatbuilding apprenticeship in August and I now want to start building up my own set of tools. I currently require a tenon saw, dovetail saw and find myself confused by the number of different brands on offer. I want to purchase tools that are going to last. My maximum price is about £40 per saw. I have been looking at Footprint and Victor saws. I see from your forums that members are not particularly impressed by Footprint. I live in Cornwall and there is nowhere I can go to view these saws. Any recommendations would be appreciated. I have used the Japanese saws and have been quite comfortable with them so these may be an option. Brand recommendations please

 

[Mikey R]

I would be interested in good quality saws too, but Im coming at this from a hobby perspective.

What do the users here think of the Pax back and large rip saws from CHT?

When looking up the Pax saws I also came across the other saws made by Thomas Flinn:

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/

They do a few less expensive ranges, does anyone have experience of these?


Cheers!

EDIT: Forgot to say, good luck on the apprenticeship! A few years ago I had a summer job with Oyster Marine, spent 6 weeks fairing a 50 something ft hull with some really amazing boat builders. Tiring but good fun!

 

[marcus]

I have a victor tenon saw and have no complaints about it at all.

Cheers

Marcus

 

[WellsWood]

I have the Pax 1776 dovetail saw and it's a complete joy to use, I love it, but it's my only experience of upmarket western style saws. I have no reason to believe any of it's competitors would have left me less enthusiastic had I chosen differently.
It's well out of the price point dictated by your budget though. In that price range I'd be looking at Japanese saws for the best performance/money spent ratio - go for the top of the range stuff, which you should still find affordable, as there is quite a difference in performance for relatively little extra outlay.

I can personally attest to the difference between this, and this

 

[MIGNAL]

I have a Pax , Roberts & Lee and a (good) Stanley - all bought in the late 70's / early 80's.
They are all good when properly sharpened. Non of them have the refined handle that you see on a Lie nielsen or a Wenzloff but I'm going to guess that they will cut just as good if sharpened to the same standard.
Not so long ago I was given a very cheap rusty gents saw, it had a steel back and a very cheap handle. I'm pretty certain it was a Draper. I cleaned it up, replaced the brass back and handle (they were spare) and I sharpened it. It cuts fantastic, as good as any I've tried.
I suspect that both the Footprint and Victor saws are very capable - they just have a utility type handle.
For the dovetail there is always the new Veritas offering - when it arrives in the UK.

 

[bugbear]

I started a boatbuilding apprenticeship in August and I now want to start building up my own set of tools. I currently require a tenon saw, dovetail saw and find myself confused by the number of different brands on offer. I want to purchase tools that are going to last. My maximum price is about £40 per saw. I have been looking at Footprint and Victor saws. I see from your forums that members are not particularly impressed by Footprint. I live in Cornwall and there is nowhere I can go to view these saws. Any recommendations would be appreciated. I have used the Japanese saws and have been quite comfortable with them so these may be an option. Brand recommendations please

If your course includes saw sharpening, you can buy a straight saw from a car boot, and clean and sharpen it to a high standard. These are VERY cheap.

You can also improve the comfort of a modern wooden handle easily - using woodworking tools!

Good quality traditional saws are expensive, due to the high labour content, and small market.

There is lots of DIY advice on handle replacement and saw sharpening on the 'net, on blogs, forums and websites.

BugBear

 

[Mattty]

I have a Pax , Roberts & Lee and a (good) Stanley - all bought in the late 70's / early 80's.
They are all good when properly sharpened. Non of them have the refined handle that you see on a Lie nielsen or a Wenzloff but I'm going to guess that they will cut just as good if sharpened to the same standard.
Not so long ago I was given a very cheap rusty gents saw, it had a steel back and a very cheap handle. I'm pretty certain it was a Draper. I cleaned it up, replaced the brass back and handle (they were spare) and I sharpened it. It cuts fantastic, as good as any I've tried.
I suspect that both the Footprint and Victor saws are very capable - they just have a utilitarian handle.
For the dovetail there is always the new Veritas offering - when it arrives in the UK.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... e=1&jump=0

I got mine last week after reading phillys review. Beautiful saw

 

[HeathRobinson]

Caveat: This comes to you from a relative newbie.

In terms of the saws mentioned so far I have the Victor brand tenon saw and the Lynx branded 8" non-reversible gents saw.

Both saws actually have "E. Garlick and Son" emblazoned on the blades despite being marketed differently. The Victor one just happens to advertise Axminster too. Not sure on price differences or if there are discernible quality differences but to me this means they're all made in the same place along with the Pax saws. Neither seem flimsy or badly constructed but if I were to do it again I'd get a pistol grip style dovetail saw instead of the gents saw dovetail. They work, and they have worked well straight from manufacturer for me.

Things I haven't liked about these two were the finish on the Lynx gent's saw handle was not very well done at all. In fact near terrible. Both saws came with some varnish or other on the blades which started to come off with use. Now knowing full well that the look of ones tools matters not one iota I still felt that perhaps I was meant to remove this varnish and so have done so now on the dovetail saw by swabbing with mineral spirits but the stuff on the Victor saw refuses to budge. Of course they need wiping with oil to keep them in good nick too but all saws do.

A number of us also had a go with the new Veritas dovetail saw at woodbloke's place recently. Cuts a near surgical line in my view, and quickly too, but that was only in comparison to woodblokes fairly well used Lie Nielson. A mental comparison with my Lynx dovetail saw makes me think that the Veritas cuts quicker because it is probably sharper being new, but has roughly the same kerf width, probably having very similar set on the teeth. Not sure about the plastic back on the Veritas though this is probably just me being a luddite.

A Fine Woodworking magazine article I have on dovetail saws rates the Crown gent's saw style dovetail as Best Overall of the gents saw style handles and the Adria dovetail as the Best Overall of the pistol grip dovetails. There is a massive difference in price between the two so read into that what you will.

Happy to help, hopefully this doesn't come across as advice though, it is more meant to convey my experience with the saws mentioned so far.

Simon

 

[wizer]

I can personally attest to the difference between this, and this

Damnit I was trying to find your saw earlier and it eluded me

(ps this thread has been duplicated)

 

[Mikey R]

...Both saws actually have "E. Garlick and Son" emblazoned on the blades despite being marketed differently. The Victor one just happens to advertise Axminster too. Not sure on price differences or if there are discernible quality differences but to me this means they're all made in the same place along with the Pax saws. Neither seem flimsy or badly constructed but if I were to do it again I'd get a pistol grip style dovetail saw instead of the gents saw dovetail. They work, and they have worked well straight from manufacturer for me...

If all the less expensive saws made at Thomas Flinn are really that similar, then the backsaws in the Lynx range should be ok?

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... Range.html

I might get one in the new year, but Im not really sure what makes a good saw - all mine are hardpoints

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you want to spend about £40 per saw, then for the dovetail I'd definitely go for the new Veritas http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... ritas.html

I've tried it out and it's an absolute cracker - you won't be disappointed.

Cheers :ho2

Paul

 

[dunbarhamlin]

ApprenticeKate, to echo BB, unless going Japanese, whether buying new or old, sooner or later you will need to learn to sharpen your saws, particularly since they are to be used in your work.
Further to that, bear in mind that the only functional part of a saw which persists beyond its first sharpening is the handle shape - which can be adjusted or replaced to suit.
If you can find sound examples on the S/H market, that would certainly be the least expensive route - and also mean you have less invested in your first sharpening victim

Mikey - but for cosmetic differences, the only distinction between the Tho. Flinn backsaw ranges is that the teeth are hand finished in the Pax range - vide supra.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Mikey R]

ApprenticeKate, to echo BB, unless going Japanese, whether buying new or old, sooner or later you will need to learn to sharpen your saws, particularly since they are to be used in your work.
Further to that, bear in mind that the only functional part of a saw which persists beyond its first sharpening is the handle shape - which can be adjusted or replaced to suit.
If you can find sound examples on the S/H market, that would certainly be the least expensive route - and also mean you have less invested in your first sharpening victim

Mikey - but for cosmetic differences, the only distinction between the Tho. Flinn backsaw ranges is that the teeth are hand finished in the Pax range - vide supra.

Cheers
Steve

Cheers Steve -


Another question for a pros - is there a practical difference between a brass back and a steel back?

Thanks!

 

[dunbarhamlin]

Brass is pretty.
The End.

[edit] Sorry, that was flip - no, no practical difference except price[/edit]

 

[Mikey R]

Brass is pretty.
The End.

[edit] Sorry, that was flip - no, no practical difference except price[/edit]

Thanks - I'll be going for the steel one then!

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... Range.html

 

[AndyT]

Mike asked:

is there a practical difference between a brass back and a steel back?

Brass backs are generally heavier, making it easier to do as my old school woodwork teacher always told us and 'let the saw do the work.'

Andy

 

[Mikey R]

Mike asked:

is there a practical difference between a brass back and a steel back?

Brass backs are generally heavier, making it easier to do as my old school woodwork teacher always told us and 'let the saw do the work.'

Andy

Cheers Andy,

As Im planning on keeping these saws for a very long time, I dont think the £10 difference is a worthy saving when factored over a good few decades of service.

Better get it right or I'll just have to buy a replacement in a few years time!

 

[bugbear]

Mike asked:

is there a practical difference between a brass back and a steel back?

Brass backs are generally heavier, making it easier to do as my old school woodwork teacher always told us and 'let the saw do the work.'

Andy

For equal thickness brass is around 15% (i.e.. not much) heavier.

BugBear

 

[woodbloke]

I've used the new Veritas dovetail saw for a short while now and as Paul says, it's very, very good...easily the equal of something costing two or three times as much. At a tad less than £40 I don't see anything that's going to come close to beating it - Rob

 

[TheTiddles]

I have two Lynx saws, the 14" tennon saws with rip and cross profiles, they are very good from what I've found, they are presents so have the walnut handles which almost doubles the price I think. I will be getting more...

Aidan