Hand saw sharpening files

[BigDougal]

Hi

This thread follows one I created last year about whether it’s worth getting involved in resharpening saws or just buying through away HP saws. Thanks to all who responded.

I’ve decided that resharpenable is the way I’d like to go and managed to get my hands on a load of old saws to practice on (all nice old saws which need a bit of restoration). But... I don’t know which files to buy and from where. I’ve watched a couple of videos which are really useful butI’m still unsure which ones to buy. One American guy said cheap files from Walmart are fine but they just don’t last as long. I’m happy to go with cheap and cheerful at this stage.

Can anyone recommend a set or a few good sizes to start with? I understand that you don’t want an exact triangle but a 6 sided file, not many places seem to explain this.

Any help would be much appreciated.
I’ll post some photos of the saws shortly. Hopefully also before and after.

 

[LJM]

Files a pretty inexpensive, in my experience; just go straight for a decent brand such as Grobet, Bahco, Thomas Flinn etc. Correct use of the file should see it last a long time.

Size the file according to the tooth size; it should come roughly halfway up the face of the file.

 

[thetyreman]

I can recommend bacho files, workshop heaven have a good selection.

 

[Orraloon]

Little bit of light reading on the subject.
Welcome to Vintage Saw's Saw Filing Treatise
Regards
John

 

[Just4Fun]

I can recommend bacho files

Agreed. I have a Bahco file and it suits me. I mainly use it to sharpen my tenon saw.

I bought a "set" or selection of small no-name files from Amazon a couple of years ago and sometimes use some of those for sharpening larger rip saws even though they are general files rather than specific for saw work. They do the job but buying a selection was not a good choice. There is too little difference between the files, so I would have been better buying just a couple to do what I want.

 

[BigDougal]

Thanks.
I don’t actually have the saws yet, that’s why I was thinking about getting a cheap set so I could get cracking straight away. I remember watching a video on YouTube about router bits and the guy recommended buying a cheap set, then replacing the ones you use often with good ones - that’s what I’ve done.

It sounds like with this I should wait, measure them and buy 2 or 3 half decent files.

 

[Doug B]

Classic Hand tools have Grobet at reasonable prices.

https://www.classichandtools.com/acatalog/Grobet-Triangular-Saw-Files-TF.html#SID=260

 

[pe2dave]

Worth seeking out Paul Sellers on sharpening, he goes through it all very thoroughly.
My view: Decent file, but they don't last, since you only use a tiny bit of the surface?
Keep an eye on the corners. You'll spot the wear.

 

[grumpycorn]

If you're restoring saws you might find that they need more than just a resharpen anyway (as in more than just touching up the teeth) and you need to recut the teeth anyway (apologies if that's what you meant). If that's the case, you can decide now what TPI you want and just buy the right size file before they turn up, plus a file for taking off the old teeth. There's an excellent guide to recutting saw teeth on this forum by Deema:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/thread...and-re-teething-of-a-99p-saw-completed.98494/
I followed that and restored a very unloved backsaw (it did take me a few goes mind!). I've used Bahco and Grobet and they're both good.

 

[Droogs]

I get mine from these guys and have done so for over 20 years

 

[gmercer_48083]

This is the one I bought last month. Bahco 4-187-06-2-2 X-Slim Taper Files, 6-Inch, Single Cut with Handle - Hand Files - Amazon.com
I purchased based on Paul Sellers recommendation.

 

[Jameshow]

I brought a cheap one for about £4 off eBay, just to try it and it's been fine. It's a black handled one.

Cheers James

 

[TominDales]

Worth seeking out Paul Sellers on sharpening, he goes through it all very thoroughly.
My view: Decent file, but they don't last, since you only use a tiny bit of the surface?
Keep an eye on the corners. You'll spot the wear.

For files sizes numbering system is fiendishly long. The attached list from Paul Sellers is very helpful in deciding what to get.

I've found Bahco to be good quality and affordable quality. Here is one I bought in January: Bahco 4-188-05-2-2 IR4-188-05-2-2 Ergo Double/Extra Slim Taper Saw File, Grey/Black/Orange, 125 x 5.0 mm: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

You will have to buy a fine flat head or ba**ard file to level the tops of the teeth so that they are all the same hight - its seems scary thing to do to start with. When learning, you may want to practice with the triangular file first and then the flat file - this is normally the wrong way round, you should normally start with the flat file, but if you have some short teeth, you may want to deepen them all first as its hard as a beginner to completely re-build a pattern. So take a reasonable saw with a defined pattern and sharpen it with the triangular file. Then re-do the whole process starting with the flat file and then the triangular one. Takes longer but you gain confidence in the technique that way. Also start with a rip saw, its much more straightforward than a cross-cut saw.

Saw iron is very hard and files where out, very unlike filing or rasping wood or soft steel. I would recommend you buy new when learning, its best to start with reliable tools as its really fun to see how quickly a saw comes back to life. You can take you chance on ebay later, as so few people sharpen saws these days that many files on ebay are little used, or were the inheritance of a past craftsman, but its not worth taking the risk at the start and a good Bahco is only £5 to £10 pounds depending on whether you buy one with a handle or have your own handles (re-used, or turned etc).

I echo pe2dave advice regarding Paul Sellers on saw sharpening. - loads of videos and blogs.
Although I've sharpened saws on and off for years, I recently found the above videos from Paul S, he explains how to do it, and why its done so well, you will soon understand the technique thanks to Paul S. (Peter S**). He also conveys the pleasure in doing it well.

If you buy second hand saws you may have to restore the metal, de-rust, even re-cut the teeth and straighten the plate. I recommend you start with one that does not need much fettling, just sharpening as its very satisfying taking a blunt saw, sharpening it and then seeing how much faster it cuts than before. Its nice thing to do for friends who don't have the kit. Good luck Tom

 

[BigDougal]

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. I bought 15 saws for an old guy who seemed to collect them... for £20. Hopefully they’ll arrive tomorrow. His daughter said the looked straight and no teeth missing.

 

[TominDales]

Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated. I bought 15 saws for an old guy who seemed to collect them... for £20. Hopefully they’ll arrive tomorrow. His daughter said the looked straight and no teeth missing.

Sounds like a bargain. The old guy will be pleased they are off to a good home. My father is getting dementia so I've taken all my old tools to my house. Sad to see it come to an end for him, but life goes on. One this to watch for, is some relatively new saws with hardened teeth, they are too hard to file. Stick with the old ones. Good luck

 

[Jacob]

......

You will have to buy a fine flat head or ba**ard file to level the tops of the teeth so that they are all the same hight - its seems scary thing to do to start with. ......

Or if you are not too bothered and lazy like me just sharpen it as it is but make a slight effort to correct variations, without flattening. They'll saw just as well with uneven teeth as long as the sharpness and the set is about the same each way.

 

[pe2dave]

A saw is much nicer to use if straight and true. Easier to sharpen too, no 'compensation' for dips and peaks?
A straight edge, only a few passes with a 12" file and off you go. 'Truly' sharp.

 

[Jacob]

A saw is much nicer to use if straight and true.

If it cuts well you aren't going to care whether or not it's straight and true

Easier to sharpen too, no 'compensation' for dips and peaks?
A straight edge, only a few passes with a 12" file and off you go. 'Truly' sharp.

Much harder to sharpen if you are looking at individual teeth to get them the same

 

[pe2dave]

I differ in both your issues Jacob.
A straight saw runs true. Equal height teeth take the same cut.
How do you sharpen a saw without addressing 'individual' teeth?
If they're all the same height (or none) they take the same file stroke?

 

[IWW]

If it cuts well you aren't going to care whether or not it's straight and true....
...Much harder to sharpen if you are looking at individual teeth to get them the same

Dunno how you sharpen a saw if you don't look at individual teeth, Jacob!

......A straight saw runs true. Equal height teeth take the same cut .....

Actually, the tooth line doesn't have to be straight, Dave, "breasted" saws have a curved tooth line, for e.g. Even set is very important, that's what determines if the saw runs 'true', but it's also important that the tips of the teeth follow an even line or curve for the saw to cut smoothly.

You can usually tell at a glance if a saw has been poorly sharpened a few times, it will be all "cows & calves", but if the tips of the teeth are vaguely even, it will still cut ok. You may not suffer too much with uneven tips when sawing soft woods at an acute angle, but cutting hardwoods more directly across the grain as in finishing a tenon cheek etc. will be an unpleasant experience.

A properly sharpened saw cuts both smoothly & quickly. As pe2dave implies, all the teeth are working for you, not just some. If the teeth are sharp but uneven it will feel "crunchy" & you may think you are tearing out lots of sawdust, but the bloke with the well-sharpened saw will be many strokes ahead of you & working up lesss of a sweat.

I always top an unknown saw before commencing to sharpen it & do my own saws about every third or fourth sharpening. Just a couple of light passes is usually enough, as soon as I see a shiny tip on all teeth I stop. If the saw is in a right mess, as some that come to me are, I may have to take off up to a quarter of the highest teeth to get them all even. Unlike Jacob, I find it far easier to sharpen a topped saw, the shiny flats are easy to see & indicate if any teeth need correction. A bit of extra file pressure one way or the other soon fixes the problem. Less mental effort involved than flying blind, imo. Been sharpening my saws this way for a very long time & the minute amount of metal it has sacrificed isn't noticeable. And I suspect I sharpen my saws more frequently than most.....

Cheers,
Ian