Grrrrr...Milwaukee, what a con.

[paulrbarnard]

You may not need to wait for Taiwan. If China is caught supplying weapons to Russia there may be sanctions.

That could be as soon as next week.

Cheers, Vann.

If that happens the global economy will collapse.

 

[niemeyjt]

But if the West does nothing, it emboldens Xi re Taiwan so I would expect targeted sanctions at first - like aimed at DJI and others supplying dual use items to Russia.

Remember, if Western companies all run for the exits, the Chinese people may see a few downturns and turn against the CCP.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Remember, if Western companies all run for the exits, the Chinese people may see a few downturns and turn against the CCP.

Don’t count on it. Despite what the western politicians want you to believe the vast majority of Chinese are actually quite happy with their situation. In fact many are proud of their country and the gains they have made in the last 20 years. There is of course massive propaganda and misinformation on both sides manipulating both view points. Doubtless there are many negatives about the Chinese regime especially around human rights of minorities but don’t have any expectations that the Chinese population will stage a revolution because Dji or Foxcon can’t trade outside China. The contrary is more likely with Western governments having problems as their populations can’t get spare parts for virtually everything they own and face spiralling costs for everything they buy.

 

[Adam W.]

Can you imagine the moaning, it was bad enough with the MV Everstuck debacle.

 

[Keith Cocker]

Of course though, anyone on this site who has bought a
Festool, and their like doesn’t buy on price alone! I suspect most of us are conflicted?

We obviously aren’t hoi poloi

 

[Adam W.]

We obviously aren’t hoi poloi

Quite.

 

[SteveH2]

I agree with much of this. I aim to buy products that are not made in China because I have no desire to support a regime that I believe are totally untrustworthy. As pointed out by others it can be difficult to find products manufactured in free countries but I am willing to make the effort and pay a premium if necessary. Too much cheap and disposable stuff is already wreaking our environment as well as workers lives

 

[mwinfrance]

I agree with much of this. I aim to buy products that are not made in China because I have no desire to support a regime that I believe are totally untrustworthy. As pointed out by others it can be difficult to find products manufactured in free countries but I am willing to make the effort and pay a premium if necessary. Too much cheap and disposable stuff is already wreaking our environment as well as workers lives

you posted from a computer, or tablet, or phone made where , to a website hosted on a server( ( cloudflare's severs ( plural actually ) made where ? using components chips etc made where? look around your home, your vehicle , your clothing, your footwear, before even looking at where your woodworking tools come from ) a huge part of what you have will either be made in PRC, or have a major part of it's components made in PRC and assembled elsewhere, so as to "ease the consciences" of those who want to say 3 I try to avoid buying from China, I'm prepared to pay more in order to do that"..To do so would instantly increase the price of 99% of the things people own fourfold or more.
None of us ( I hope ) , support what the PRC does to it's people , but virtue signaling on a forum or down at 'spoons , while living a life style that is PRC production based, is just that, virtue signalling. Unless you are living in a hole in the ground, off grid, knitting your own gruel etc or spending four times what you currently do to avoid the PRC, you are certain to be supporting them. to begin with, every light switch and every plug and socket in the average home will be made in PRC.That's before we get around to what plugs into those sockets.Your clothes , right down to your skivvies will be made in countries whose human rights records are dire, and you give thanks everyday to not have been born in any of them as an average citizen there.Easy to say one avoids buying from the PRC, well nigh impossible to put into practice, when was the last time you stood in the cold and rain outside their embassy protesting , or something similar that takes more than a minor inconvenience until the price tag makes you say, "I'll buy it anyway".

All "regimes" are untrustworthy, those who rule us have their best interests at heart, not yours, mine , or ours.to believe otherwise is naive.We are all only a capitol riot away from a "strong ruler" and "for the good of the people", and "our saviours" take off their masks.

 

[RobinBHM]

buy your Make America Great Again hats here:

 

[mwinfrance]

buy your Make America Great Again hats here:

Exactly!

 

[Blackswanwood]

you posted from a computer, or tablet, or phone made where , to a website hosted on a server( ( cloudflare's severs ( plural actually ) made where ? using components chips etc made where? look around your home, your vehicle , your clothing, your footwear, before even looking at where your woodworking tools come from ) a huge part of what you have will either be made in PRC, or have a major part of it's components made in PRC and assembled elsewhere, so as to "ease the consciences" of those who want to say 3 I try to avoid buying from China, I'm prepared to pay more in order to do that"..To do so would instantly increase the price of 99% of the things people own fourfold or more.
None of us ( I hope ) , support what the PRC does to it's people , but virtue signaling on a forum or down at 'spoons , while living a life style that is PRC production based, is just that, virtue signalling. Unless you are living in a hole in the ground, off grid, knitting your own gruel etc or spending four times what you currently do to avoid the PRC, you are certain to be supporting them. to begin with, every light switch and every plug and socket in the average home will be made in PRC.That's before we get around to what plugs into those sockets.Your clothes , right down to your skivvies will be made in countries whose human rights records are dire, and you give thanks everyday to not have been born in any of them as an average citizen there.Easy to say one avoids buying from the PRC, well nigh impossible to put into practice, when was the last time you stood in the cold and rain outside their embassy protesting , or something similar that takes more than a minor inconvenience until the price tag makes you say, "I'll buy it anyway".

All "regimes" are untrustworthy, those who rule us have their best interests at heart, not yours, mine , or ours.to believe otherwise is naive.We are all only a capitol riot away from a "strong ruler" and "for the good of the people", and "our saviours" take off their masks.

Take a chill pill. All he said was he tries not to buy stuff from China but it’s difficult. No need to start frothing at the mouth.

 

[mwinfrance]

Take a chill pill. All he said was he tries not to buy stuff from China but it’s difficult. No need to start frothing at the mouth.

Not "frothing at the mouth" just pointing out the ease of virtue signaling on the web in a forum, as opposed to doing something concrete in real life.
And no his exact words were not what you say they are. this is what he (SteveH2 ) actually said.

I agree with much of this. I aim to buy products that are not made in China because I have no desire to support a regime that I believe are totally untrustworthy. As pointed out by others it can be difficult to find products manufactured in free countries but I am willing to make the effort and pay a premium if necessary. Too much cheap and disposable stuff is already wreaking our environment as well as workers lives

When one quotes what someone says ( me ) in reply to someone ( him ), it is normal ( and a lot more precise, and intellectually honest ) to literally quote what was replied to ( quote tags are easy to type, copy and paste also works ), rather than attempt to paraphrase him so as to have a go at me."Wetherspoons warriors" who claim to try to avoid Chinese goods and then post using gear made in China, really are not trying hard at all. Virtue signalling .
RobinBHM understands the point It isn't what one says, it is what one actually does.
And Yes, I've stood in the rain and the cold outside many embassies in my life protesting, including that of the PRC..I have Chinese friends, some of whom are, or have been imprisoned.

 

[bourbon]

I don't think he was 'frothing at the mouth' as you put it. Merely stating the facts. The microchip shortage is still affecting car production

 

[mwinfrance]

Thank you bourbon..as you say "merely stating the facts".
Btw..My neighbour is waiting ( 3 months late ) for his Dacia electric car to arrive..Dacia made in China.
He has the money to buy made in "elsewhere", his other car is a VW transporter cost him 60K euros, owns a 400k house, buys a Chinese made Dacia electric so as to "save money" ( it is also subsidised by the government here ) I can't get him to look further than him saving by using off peak electric rather than paying diesel.he too says the PRC is terrible and he tries to avoid Chinese products..yep..My eye.

 

[Blackswanwood]

Not "frothing at the mouth" just pointing out the ease of virtue signaling on the web in a forum, as opposed to doing something concrete in real life.

My reading of it was you were having a go at another forum member just because he said he tried not to buy stuff from China but it was hard to do. I’ve said the same on here as have others. You’ve no idea what else me or anyone else does so it’s a bit of a leap to start branding us virtue signallers.

And no his exact words were not what you say they are.

My summary is accurate in my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

When one quotes what someone says ( me ) in reply to someone ( him ), it is normal ( and a lot more precise, and intellectually honest ) to literally quote what was replied to ( quote tags are easy to type, copy and paste also works ), rather than attempt to paraphrase him so as to have a go at me.

Are you sure you have not confused a woodworking forum where blokes chat with the High Court?

And Yes, I've stood in the rain and the cold outside many embassies in my life protesting, including that of the PRC

Well done if that’s the case. In my view though it doesn’t make those that have not virtue signallers or Wetherspoon Warriors (whatever they are).

Have a good evening.

 

[mwinfrance]

My reading of it was you were having a go at another forum member just because he said he tried not to buy stuff from China but it was hard to do. I’ve said the same on here as have others. You’ve no idea what else me or anyone else does so it’s a bit of a leap to start branding us virtue signallers.



My summary is accurate in my opinion. You are entitled to yours.



Are you sure you have not confused a woodworking forum where blokes chat with the High Court?



Well done if that’s the case. In my view though it doesn’t make those that have not virtue signallers or Wetherspoon Warriors (whatever they are).

Have a good evening.

Wetherspoon Warriors ..those who talk a about "injustices etc, doing their bit" but who immediately add how hard it is for them personally to do anything about it, and whose actions show that in fact they do nothing that inconveniences them.
Can be summed up as "talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk".

MikeK posted a list up thread ( along with the pics of "tool aisle pron" from the USA. Say you want to avoid Chinese made, and are willing to pay more to do so.MikeK posted the country of origin of the brands.Not hard to avoid made in PRC, especially if one says that one is willing to pay more to do so. MikeK's list is on page 3 of this thread.
I'll repeat his findings here.
Milwaukee. Made in China and Vietnam.
Makita. Except for one tool, all were made in China. The exception was the SP6000J plunge saw, which was made in the UK.
DeWalt. Made in China and Mexico
Bosch. Made in Malaysia and China
Jet. Made in Taiwan
Powermatic. Made in Taiwan
Rikon. Made in Taiwan
Hilti. Made in China
Festool. Made in Germany and a couple of sanders from the Czech Republic.
Husqvarna. Made in Sweden

so to avoid PRC
buy
Jet. Made in Taiwan
Powermatic. Made in Taiwan
Rikon. Made in Taiwan
or plunge saw makita ( UK )..and some festool tools DE ( but not all PRC )

Not hard to avoid PRC..if one says that one is willing to pay more, as Steve2H did, one can "walk the walk"

MikeK didn't mention Mafell, presumably because they didn't have a stand /display ?..anyone know where they are made .

Are you sure you have not confused a woodworking forum where blokes chat with the High Court?

Disputes and missunderstandings are avoided by directly quoting, that is accuracy , summarising is not accurate, and why do so if the original text is right there to be quoted. summarising( in this case ) is putting your words in someone else's mouth, in order to have a go at ( in this case ) me. Slow night in the shop, not much on TV , or you just fancied the half hour argument? My money is on the latter. my evening is going great thanks, I hope yours( and everyone else's is too.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

MikeK posted the country of origin of the brands. Not hard to avoid made in PRC ...

Yes, it is - you have no idea how many parts of those tools are made in the PRC no matter where the tool is assembled.

 

[mwinfrance]

But some are obviously entirely made in PRC ( they say so ) , agreed, to know what parts of the others are PRC , you'd have to do "tear downs"* ( and even then resin encasing electronics hides a multitude of sins ) , but until someone makes "fair trade" tools which are guaranteed to have all parts ethically sourced ( I won't be holding my breath ) it is nevertheless possible ( but "spendy" ) to avoid tools which are entirely made in PRC.Note at no point have I said that it is possible to avoid tools or other things partially made in PRC, or which contain made in PRC components, in fact I have said the precise opposite.Hence my point that saying one avoids PRC made items is to choose to blind oneself to what one has and buys. Can't be done at 100%.

There is of course worse than PRC ( no, this is not whataboutery ) , vast numbers of items are "re-origined" in many countries , changes of paperwork and boxes, re-labeling etc. for example most of the artificial flowers and plants ( not just the cheap ones, but some of the very expensive ones in homes and offices all over the world are in reality made in North Korea by political prisoners kept as slaves, in conditions far worse than those in PRC.

 

[Noel]

Just a thought, if we all stopped buying Chinese made tools etc would there be any toolshops or tool distribution companies left?
Personally I’m not overly fussed where my tools come from as long as they do the job and do it well. But I’m happy that it helps my local and online dealers stay in business along with wholesalers and logistics firms.

 

[mwinfrance]

Just a thought, if we all stopped buying Chinese made tools etc would there be any toolshops or tool distribution companies left?
Personally I’m not overly fussed where my tools come from as long as they do the job and do it well. But I’m happy that it helps my local and online dealers stay in business along with wholesalers and logistics firms.

Most people seem to be cutting out a lot of that chain and going direct via aliexpress, bangood et al.
it would be great ( albeit very very time consuming ) to make all our own tools, ( thinking of a plane making thread I read here at the weekend ), but that would mean hand tools only.I could deal with the metal working part, but many could not, or might have neighbours who would object to all the banging , anvils and forges are not quiet when in use.
My grandfather made all his own tools, grew trees and shrubs to have the correct wood to make handles etc ( and hurls ) and had his own forge, I learnt from him.

Ps..A huge amount of textile items are PRC made but 're-origined" as Lebanese, Maltese or Maghreb made ..I used to have a business dealing in apparel, tee-shirts, sweat shirts, swim wear, jeans etc, and some leather apparel.Basically an importer when buying OEM can choose where it says it is made, or have it sent to a third country where the labels, paperwork etc are changed . The Lebanon was supposedly making hundreds of thousands of tee-shirts all during their civil war, ( despite having no power for most of every day, bombs going off etc, full on civil war ) and shipping them to Italy to be sent on around Europe and the rest of the world.In reality it was all PRC made ( and at the time subject to "quota" )..but for an additional 10% ( on top of the CIF price ) it all became "made in Lebanon".