Green Dakota Parallel clamps

[zambezi]

I did not see anything wrong with Wizzers comments, I thought they were fair based on his experiences with Dakota products and the way the Rutlands MD posted the "facts" without introducing himself. I could say I am the MD of Axminster, does not mean I am and I could say that my products have never failed (which is exactly what I would if I was trying to sell more of them)?
I guess it is down to interpretation...

 

[studders]

Wizzer,
Mark from Rutlands gave a set of facts about these clamps, which has to be taken at face value...both that he works for Rutlands and that the facts he gave are correct.

Why?

As it turns out

Exactly. As it turns out. Rather proves the point I think. Why not identify yourself from the outset if you are going to make claims on behalf of a company and the goods it sells?


Sorry but I think you are wrong.

 

[Modernist]

I think there are some issues here and it is good if the MD cares to partake in the discussion.

I use Rutlands occasionally and would comment as follows:

I bought an Anant Bull Nose plane and was very disappointed with the general quality, in particular the fact that the base was way out of square to the sides. I decided that Anant were not for me and asked them to swap it with cash adjustment for the Veritas equivalent. They could not have been more helpful and the Veritas has become one of my favourite planes.

I then bought two sets of the red parallel jaw clamps which have a few faults. If they had only 3 complaints per 1000 why were they withdrawn for a time last year? Mine are often difficult to slide as the jammer jams solid requiring a good tap to free it. The biggest problem is that the rubber pads on the jaws exude resin into the timber which is irremovable.

Next I bought a set of hex drive countersinks. These were advertised and pictured as cone/snail type but arrived as multi-flute which I do not like as they tend to chatter. I emailed by return but never received any response.

My final transaction recently was to buy a LN62 which was £20 cheaper than the rest.

THere you are then, good and bad.

 

[dicktimber]

Zambezi
Thankyou for replying in a polite, non confrontational, non condesending, non sarcastic way to my last post.
I take your comments on board,
Got it?
Mike

 

[studders]

Got it?

:?

 

[wizer]

I still don't understand. How was I to know he was the MD of the company from his first reply Mikke ? I really don't think you've read the thread properly.

 

[TheTiddles]

If you ever go to Woodcraft in the USA, they sell Woodriver clamps which is their own brand that they say are made by Bessey also, in all ways they are identical except the colour, so maybe Bessey are doing some OEM work too. However, the Bessey and Woodriver clamps are very closely priced, the Rutlands versions are not. Next time a few of us get together why doesn't Rutlands send over one of their clamps and we'll compare it to some of our own Bessey clamps? If it's any good we'll send it back in one piece, if it's not we can't guarantee that

As for the tone of comments, deal with it.

Aidan

 

[wizer]

Well, I never commented on the clamps. But I'd be more than willing to BUY a DAKOTA clamp and put it up against a Bessey. I have no reason to believe Mark is telling fibs. Tho the fact they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are the same quality.

As I say, I'll take the Pepsi challenge if it'll put a cork in this thread.

 

[zambezi]

Well, I never commented on the clamps. But I'd be more than willing to BUY a DAKOTA clamp and put it up against a Bessey. I have no reason to believe Mark is telling fibs. Tho the fact they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are the same quality.

As I say, I'll take the Pepsi challenge if it'll put a cork in this thread.

Let us know how you get on with them, I would be interested in the outcome.

While I was typing this I noticed the Rutlands ad on the top right of my screen, advertising the Dakota clamps...

 

[dunbarhamlin]

I don't have any original K bodies, but do have Dakotas as well as some Bessey K Revos.

Both cramp.

The Besseys adjust more smoothly and have a more comfortable handle (noticable after lots of cramping.) They also have irritating plastic pads that fall off at the wrong time. The Dakotas aren't as prettily finished. Perhaps the the clutch mechanism just needs to bed in.

Anyone with Ks and KRs? How does the adjustment compare?

O - Rob - a thingy is available to combine two KRs for longer clamping (but just the thingy probably costs more than a NiB Record from Penny Farthing)

Steve

 

[markwuzere]

Please may I take the opportunity to clarify two facts:

1) The Dakota Parallel Jaw Clamps (Part No DKBC31 & DKBC51) are manuafactured in the same factory as the original Bessey K Body Clamps.

2) After 18 months of sales Rutlands Ltd customer returns rate for the Dakota Parallel Jaw Clamps (Part No DKBC31 & DKBC51) is less than 3 clamps in 1000.

Thank you

Mark
Rutlands Ltd

i think its good that a retailer will come on the forum to defend his products shows they are interested in feedback, i have bought dakota from rutlands in the past with no problems, however after recent experiences im just into a 2 year no thanks to rutlands in general.
if i wasnt i might have bought a few of the clamps to see as you can never have enough clamps :lol:

 

[Imperial]

Just to throw in my tuppence worth on this subject, which I've only just caught up on! Wizer is fully entitled to state his opinion based on his experiences, without any other members taking it personally, unless aimed at them. I don't think in this case they were, having read all of the comments!

Now, I bought a pack of these clamps and within a few days of use one stopped working and would loose grip, one of the 3 eh!, Rutlands replaced said clamp no problem and I have continued to use them and have found them to be as easy to use as Besseys though as was stated earlier by Dunbar' I think, a little less refined.

IMHO they seem to be reasonable value for money and if your lacking in that dept need 4 clamps but cant wait, or justify,to save for Bessey's then you should be reasonably happy!

Back to Rutland's service etc, I am still waiting for a refund to be issued after 3 months from them and have yet to receive either email dispatch notices or invoices for any purchase. The service seems either spot on or terrible and nothing inbetween.

I hope Mark still reads this thread and perhaps takes onboard the crit's he gets, though no company I deal with is perfect, self included :wink: .

 

[big soft moose]

Wizzer,
Mark from Rutlands gave a set of facts about these clamps, which has to be taken at face value...both that he works for Rutlands and that the facts he gave are correct.
By using' bully boy', language in reply to his post and then undermining his credentials in a sarcastic manner, don't make for good reading or PR for this forum.
As it turns out he was the MD, of a company giving us factual info.
For that reason alone, whatever happened in the past, this guy deserves to be treated with some respect on the forum.
.

sorry dick but i'm with wizer here

a) how are we to devine from the user name mark333 that he is the MD of rutlands - he could have been anybody. I could claim to be the MD of axminster or anywhere else but it wouldnt make it true

b) why didn't he make clear that he is the MD - Perhaps "Mark rutlands MD" as a username (like for instance MathewWH from workshop heaven)

c) Why should he be treated with more respect than any other poster ?

d) A lot of us have had bad experiences with rutlands lately - check out the rutlands planes thread in the hand tools forum. Personally I'd be more inclined to treat Mark with respect if his customer services dept treated us with the same.

e) who died and made you a moderator

 

[markwuzere]

Wizzer,
Mark from Rutlands gave a set of facts about these clamps, which has to be taken at face value...both that he works for Rutlands and that the facts he gave are correct.
By using' bully boy', language in reply to his post and then undermining his credentials in a sarcastic manner, don't make for good reading or PR for this forum.
As it turns out he was the MD, of a company giving us factual info.
For that reason alone, whatever happened in the past, this guy deserves to be treated with some respect on the forum.
.

sorry dick but i'm with wizer here

a) how are we to devine from the user name mark333 that he is the MD of rutlands - he could have been anybody. I could claim to be the MD of axminster or anywhere else but it wouldnt make it true

b) why didn't he make clear that he is the MD - Perhaps "Mark rutlands MD" as a username (like for instance MathewWH from workshop heaven)

c) Why should he be treated with more respect than any other poster ?

d) A lot of us have had bad experiences with rutlands lately - check out the rutlands planes thread in the hand tools forum. Personally I'd be more inclined to treat Mark with respect if his customer services dept treated us with the same.

e) who died and made you a moderator

point d couldnt agree more

 

[Chems]

I think the thing is Wizer jumped on him in what came across to me personally as a very aggressive tone, quite rightly so if he has had such poor experiences with Dakota products. What I think was not quite right was the fact that we have scared off the MD and reinforced his decision not to join our discussion which could have been beneficial to us all, you never know if we'd made a friend of him he might have had Rutlands contribute to our competition prizes and could have been a easy port of call for us to raise issues with products that weren't up to scratch.


Wizer, please do buy the Dakota cramps and give us a review because I've been planning to buy some Bessys and if I can them almost 2 for 1 and just have to put up with a less easy sliding action and not so nice grip then that would be ok for me!

 

[big soft moose]

What I think was not quite right was the fact that we have scared off the MD and reinforced his decision not to join our discussion which could have been beneficial to us all, you never know if we'd made a friend of him he might have had Rutlands contribute to our competition prizes

I would imagine that the six pages of (completely waranted IMO) criticism of rutlands abysmal customer service in the hand tools forum might have more to do with his decision not to be our new best mate.

by comparison - i recently mentioned on here that i had a problem with a Workshop heaven order and matthew contacted me by pm to sort it out without my even having to complain first - thats what you call top line customer service.

Back on the original subject I use the cheap axminster clamps ( 7.99 ea ) and have never had a clamping failure - but then like karl said it depends on how much pressure you are exerting , i suspect that even a bessey will fail if you put enough pressure on it.

Ive nothing against dakota though - but i wont be buying there clamps, or anything else for that matter , from rutlands

 

[RogerS]

. Tho the fact they are made in the same factory doesn't mean they are the same quality.

.

That is spot on. In many food suppliers production lines, they will have one line for the Waitrose product, another for Morrisons. Both produce biscuits but the ingredients etc that go into them and how they are cooked are vastly different.

 

[Chems]

What I think was not quite right was the fact that we have scared off the MD and reinforced his decision not to join our discussion which could have been beneficial to us all, you never know if we'd made a friend of him he might have had Rutlands contribute to our competition prizes

I would imagine that the six pages of (completely waranted IMO) criticism of rutlands abysmal customer service in the hand tools forum might have more to do with his decision not to be our new best mate.

by comparison - i recently mentioned on here that i had a problem with a Workshop heaven order and matthew contacted me by pm to sort it out without my even having to complain first - thats what you call top line customer service.

Back on the original subject I use the cheap axminster clamps ( 7.99 ea ) and have never had a clamping failure - but then like karl said it depends on how much pressure you are exerting , i suspect that even a bessey will fail if you put enough pressure on it.

Ive nothing against dakota though - but i wont be buying there clamps, or anything else for that matter , from rutlands

I have been following that thread about the woody planes. This is going to sound like I'm changing sides earlier in the year I bought the Super 100mm Dust Extraction kit from Rutlands on sale, Nationwide how ever had put a hold on my card as I had used it a lot more than normal online an it had triggered their automated security systems, Rutlands were on the phone very quickly to let me know payment hadn't come through, when I was reading about the woody planes I thought, well they obviously don't mind as much if they already have your money.

I think half of the problem with Rutlands at the moment is that they are probably over run with all the sale activity that was going on. I got my order confirmation after my item turned on. I for one will keep shopping with Rutlands but not Axminster due to the Huge price hikes over the past 12 months.

Mark at Workshop haven actually replied to a question I asked about Gouges and got me a price for them via PM, which I've still to take him up on in the near future that is Customer Services, I've also had the same approach from Chestnut products which is fantastic, I've also had it from Axminster offering me 10% off when I missed out again via the forum PM system. That is in my opinion one of the most fantastic things about this forum and Rutlands could stand to catch up on the game in that respect which they can't do if they are going to stand off. But the ball is in both courts, we need to be respectful of anyone coming here to represent their company regardless of bad service we've received as its just good manners.

 

[matt]

c) Why should he be treated with more respect than any other poster ?

He should be treated with the same respect as any other forum member. After all, we all have a responsibility to this forum in so far as, to some extent, our tone, comments, and allegiances reflect on the forum membership as a whole - especially to new members to whom we should (IMO) have demonstrated a more open and inviting tone.

Sure we're interested in his credentials but c'mon, I think we all know that we wouldn't trust someone completely no matter how comprehensive his or her introduction and claims - would you believe me if I said I was the MD of a well known company with my first post? Mark would probably have received a very similar response? "Why should we believe you...."

Hearts & minds.

 

[wizer]

Is this still going?

Listen guys. I was prompted to explain my disdain of the Dakota brand which I did. It then seemed like Mark333 was a wind up as I found it unusual that he picked this one single thread to respond to, out of the many negative Rutlands posts. I then took objection to the fact that Mark doesn't want to post here and his unintelligible reasons for it. I don't think he's not posting here because of me, I think it's because he's ashamed of his company.

Like has been said here and in all the other threads. Rutlands customer service is far too changeable to be trustable and as such it's the very last place I will look for something I need. Until I hear of notable improvements (through this obvious grapevine) then I will continue this opinion.

Like any business, it's happy customers will be return customers. I'm just not one of them.