Steve Maskery
Established Member
Well I'll give them a dip and pot them up tomorrow. If you'd like a couple, PM me your address and I send them over.
Grafting fruit trees
- Thread starter Steve Maskery
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Many thanks, PM sent.
cheers, Keith
cheers, Keith
Safely received, Steve, many thanks. I'll pot them up and let you know how they go. I think I'll grow these in a big pot anyway.
cheers, Keith
cheers, Keith
Steve Maskery
Established Member
I realised after I had sent them - I only meant to send you two. I was going to pot the other two up myself!
It's OK, I don't need them. My tree is budding very nicely thank you. I should have put a couple of the Red William offcuts in as well, it's shame to throw them away. Ah well, senility awaits impatiently.
It's OK, I don't need them. My tree is budding very nicely thank you. I should have put a couple of the Red William offcuts in as well, it's shame to throw them away. Ah well, senility awaits impatiently.
gardening is something that other people do, but I have an interest in the results of experiments.
When we moved here, the land owner had a reputation for experimenting with fruit trees. This land was an orchard of oranges, lemons, limes, pomegranites, and other stuff I'm not familiar with. At the far end is a tree that he was very proud of as it had oranges and lemons completely intermixed on its branches.
Sadly, most of the trees were removed when the houses were built although we managed to keep one olive tree in our garden. But the house opposite has a very small "flower bed" in which the owner planted one orange and one lemon tree.
Those two have self crossed all by them selves and now one side of the tree is oranges and one side is lemons.
The oranges are not good eating, 'er indoors says they would be good for marmalade, but I dont eat that. The lemons are good though.
When we moved here, the land owner had a reputation for experimenting with fruit trees. This land was an orchard of oranges, lemons, limes, pomegranites, and other stuff I'm not familiar with. At the far end is a tree that he was very proud of as it had oranges and lemons completely intermixed on its branches.
Sadly, most of the trees were removed when the houses were built although we managed to keep one olive tree in our garden. But the house opposite has a very small "flower bed" in which the owner planted one orange and one lemon tree.
Those two have self crossed all by them selves and now one side of the tree is oranges and one side is lemons.
The oranges are not good eating, 'er indoors says they would be good for marmalade, but I dont eat that. The lemons are good though.
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
sunnybob":xiddmp2x said:
You have possibly got the root stock "wild" orange which has sprouted from below the graft, along with the lemon. (All the citrus grafting I have seen is done by putting buds into the trunk, so lots of opportunity to regrow the root stock). Locally it is called "neranga", and you can tell from the leaves - the root stock leaf has a mini-leaf at the base, and smells quite different. Crushed lemon leaf is quite possibly my favourite fragrance - it's an amazing smell. I strongly recommend it.
The fruit is very bitter, and does make fabulous "Seville" marmalade. My neighbours cut the peel into two inch squares and make a syrup - candied peel, in other words, but huge lumps rather than delicate little pieces for mince pies. It makes your mouth go numb, and is an acquired taste. I haven't really aquired it yet. Still trying.
These two trees were bought from a nursery and planted as young saplings about 8 or 9 years ago. Every ex pat HAS to plant an orange and a lemon, its traditional :roll: :shock: Mine died after 6 years of not producing a single fruit on either tree despite the missuss best attentions.
The owner is almost as ignorant of gardening as I am.
He moved back to the UK 6 years ago, the house stood empty for 4 years and has only been rented this last year (to a man who actually does know less than me about gardening). The lemons started to appear about 3 years ago. I can promise there was no grafting involved in these two trees becoming amorous. :shock:
Just to add.... the lemon tree does not have any oranges so presumably (I'm on very shaky ground here) the lemon is the male and the orange is the female?
The owner is almost as ignorant of gardening as I am.
He moved back to the UK 6 years ago, the house stood empty for 4 years and has only been rented this last year (to a man who actually does know less than me about gardening). The lemons started to appear about 3 years ago. I can promise there was no grafting involved in these two trees becoming amorous. :shock:
Just to add.... the lemon tree does not have any oranges so presumably (I'm on very shaky ground here) the lemon is the male and the orange is the female?
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
You won't get oranges on a lemon tree or lemons on an orange tree from cross polination. It would affect only a future generation, i.e. the seeds, which may or may not be viable.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
https://jurassicplants.co.uk/
Are a good place to look if you fancy something a little more unusual. I got a quince from them last spring - the chap has a doctorate in Plant Sciences (so presumably has an idea what he's doing) and picked the seeds up somewhere in E. Europe. I planted it in a pot as a seven inch single stem, and now it's about two feet six high, having twelve branches. They're vigorous on their own roots.
Are a good place to look if you fancy something a little more unusual. I got a quince from them last spring - the chap has a doctorate in Plant Sciences (so presumably has an idea what he's doing) and picked the seeds up somewhere in E. Europe. I planted it in a pot as a seven inch single stem, and now it's about two feet six high, having twelve branches. They're vigorous on their own roots.
Phil Pascoe":16ficvoy said:
I have mentioned that I know absolutely zero about gardening, but I am reporting honestly what is in front of my house. The orange tree had only oranges for several years, before the lemons appeared.
Any tampering must have been done before the neighbour bought the young tree, in which case why were there not both fruits from the start?
whiskywill
Established Member
sunnybob":1jwbv363 said:
What you have seen is quite possible. As far as I know almost any tree or plant can produce what is known as a "sport" where a branch can mutate to form a variation on the normal growth of the plant. These changes are a genetic mutation that occurs in a branch or twig, and if that tissue survives, it can produce new shoots and fruits with characteristics different from the those of the mother tree. These mutations can affect the color of the rind or pulp or the shape of the fruit. So they are most likely not lemons but a yellow skinned "orange".
I have just finshed reading "The land where lemons grow" https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/213479324?iid= ... gLa7_D_BwE
It is a very interesting history of citrus cultivation in Italy. Did you know that all citrus fruits originated from just three species, the citron, the pomelo and the mandarin. Also, did you know that the Mafia started by controlling the irrigation of citrus plantations in Sicily?
Steve Maskery":zpjyj2yc said:
Well I'll pot them all up and if they grow and you need a couple I'll send them back!
Cheers
Keith
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
sunnybob":37u9v7hf said:
It would be unusual to plant a bitter orange - either the nice man at the shop sold him a pup, or the rootstock since took over. It may well differ in your neck of the woods, but I haven't seen an orange tree here that isn't grafted - it's how the nurseries propagate them. They come like that out of the box, as it were. I have an orange tree with Navel oranges on one side, and bitter orange on the other, because that's how I prune it, because I like bitter orange marmalade. Any right-minded person would cut off the bitter orange, and encourage the other to grow, be it lemon, orange or whatever. Citrus need lots of water and fertilizer to bear fruit consistently , and they also need regular pruning, as bits of the tree die off constantly.
I haven't lifted a lemon tree's tail to know what sex it is - I'm as in the dark about that as you are. Some things are best left unknown.
Phil Pascoe
Established Member
Trees mature and fruit at different speeds - some take many years to fruit. You've possibly got two that fruit at different ages grafted together, though usually they are chosen to be compatible. The only way other than very controlled polination you'll get a tree to grow true to its varietal is to graft from an existing tree - for instance, ever Bramley in the world came originally from the same tree. Trees such as Cox's pippin, or Dumelow's seedling are trees that have cross pollinated by chance and have been found growing somewhere, often in a hedgerow from a discarded core. They are then multiplied by grafting.
Just been out to get some pics. Trouble is all the lemons have now fallen although there are loads of oranges left on the tree
below is a lemon windfall from under the tree and an orange picked from the tree.The orange looks and smells orange, the lemon looks and smells lemon.
below is a lemon windfall from under the tree and an orange picked from the tree.The orange looks and smells orange, the lemon looks and smells lemon.
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Trainee neophyte
Established Member
Does the orange taste inedibly bitter? Yes, I'm asking you to taste something unpleasant ;-)sunnybob":1rwtruew said:
Also, any chance of a look at the leaves? They should be different - the branch with the orange will have noticeably different shaped leaves to the lemon branch, and will smell different when crushed. Also lemons can have some truly wicked thorns, so be careful.
This sounds suspiciously like gulp, gardening :shock: :shock:
no obvious differences in leaves to my untrained eye, havent seen any spikes either.
I tasted the oranges a couple years ago and like I said earlier, you wouldnt want to eat a whole one from the tree. I am NOT sucking lemons, not for no one no how :roll: All of my remaining teeth are sweet.
8)
no obvious differences in leaves to my untrained eye, havent seen any spikes either.
I tasted the oranges a couple years ago and like I said earlier, you wouldnt want to eat a whole one from the tree. I am NOT sucking lemons, not for no one no how :roll: All of my remaining teeth are sweet.
8)
Trainee neophyte
Established Member
sunnybob":aq7nabpq said:
My family think I am weird, but no matter - just ran out and grabbed 3 leaves, but had to stop and snack on the last few oranges, because they are delicious, so thank you.
From left to right: orange, bitter orange, lemon. The are a gazillion different varieties, and they can often have different leaves, so nothing is guaranteed. However, note the little mini-leaf at the stalk end of my middle sample. That's a good sign of bitter orange.
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Steve Maskery
Established Member
Phil Pascoe":948n8dpg said:
Yes, it is still standing, in a garden in Southwell. Mr. Bramley's garden, to be precise.
I believe that the cottage and the garden with said tree now belongs to Nottingham Trent University and a lot of work is going on to try to keep the tree going for as long as is possible. It is rather elderly now and not in the best of health, sadly.
Every autumn there is a Bramley Apple Festival in Southwell. I've never been, but, as it is just down the road, it is on my Tuit list.
