Glass rebates cut after jointing?

[Yetty]

I’m making some glazed cupboard doors using solid wood. I've often wondered, can the rebates for the glass be cut safely after the frame is jointed & glued?

If so, assuming the rebates are cut using a router with bearing guided slot cutter, is hand router or table router the better choice?

Your words of wisdom would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[yetloh]

It would be a lot less risky to do it with the router in a table. That way you can set the fence for the right rebate width and set stops for the beginning and end points. But why don't you rebate the stock first and use stepped tenons- much better altogether and none of the faffing around with stops.

Jim

 

[p111dom]

Sorry but I would say the opposite. It's not a problem to route the rebate after the frame is glued together but I'd advise against using a router table for various reasons. Firstly there's how you would hold the piece while rotating it around the corners putting hands in harms way and how would you guard it. Much safer to use a bearing guided rebate bit with the frame either on a non-slip routing mat or clamped into say a workmate. You wouldn't need a stop of any kind with the bearing cutter.

 

[Chems]

I do mine once the door is glued up. I use a bearing guided cutter hand held, just go easy on the first cut and then to full depth on the next pass around.

Although this rebate isn't for glass its the same cutter and same process, heres before:

 

[woodbloke]

Sorry but I would say the opposite. It's not a problem to route the rebate after the frame is glued together but I'd advise against using a router table for various reasons. Firstly there's how you would hold the piece while rotating it around the corners putting hands in harms way and how would you guard it. Much safer to use a bearing guided rebate bit with the frame either on a non-slip routing mat or clamped into say a workmate. You wouldn't need a stop of any kind with the bearing cutter.

I agree, much easier to do it this way. Of course the proper way :wink: to do it is with a long and short shouldered mortise and tenon, but the advent of these new fangled, hand held electrikeral router thingies with a bearing guided cutter has made such joinery pretty much obsolete - Rob

 

[Shultzy]

DS tape a piece of scrap wood to the router base the same thickness as the frame. This helps to stop "tilt".

 

[Jacob]

Should be rebated before jointing or you end up with a really naff detail with part of the "web" (never sure what to call it) being cross grained - revealing to the world that you have cheated by using a router. Also you'll have to pick out the corners by hand with a chisel.
It's actually easier to do it properly.

 

[yetloh]

Should be rebated before jointing or you end up with a really naff detail with part of the "web" (never sure what to call it) being cross grained - revealing to the world that you have cheated by using a router. Also you'll have to pick out the corners by hand with a chisel.
It's actually easier to do it properly.

What I said in the first place.

Jim

 

[Yetty]

A big thank to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I can struggle to see the bigger picture, so these replies are fantastic. I'll probably try routing a rebate on a joined frame using hand router, see what it looks like and contemplate....at least I know some of the pitfalls to look out for.

Thank's again

 

[Jacob]

A big thank to each of you for sharing your thoughts. I can struggle to see the bigger picture, so these replies are fantastic. I'll probably try routing a rebate on a joined frame using hand router, see what it looks like and contemplate....at least I know some of the pitfalls to look out for.

Thank's again

Why not just do it properly? (Rebates first)

 

[Mcluma]

I did it also the wrong way to a number of people here

I put them nicely together, then used the router with a guide bearing to run the rebate, then you just have to square up the corners,

Benefit.... no overshooting. it goes so much faster , you run the router just arround the doorframe



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Jacob]

Obviously you can often get away with it, but not always.
Someone will spot it- you could get comments like "call himself a joiner - he's just gone round it with a router" :roll:
Even worse on the moulding side where it really is noticeable.
You couldn't do it on good quality work. It's bad practice.

 

[yetloh]

Obviously you can often get away with it, but not always.
Someone will spot it- you could get comments like "call himself a joiner - he's just gone round it with a router" :roll:
Even worse on the moulding side where it really is noticeable.
You couldn't do it on good quality work. It's bad practice.

+1

 

[Chems]

-1

 

[woodbloke]

I have to differ here. It's not 'bad practise' even on the best work, just an alternative way of doing the job and perfectly acceptable. If you were in a pro cabinet 'shop (not a joiner's 'shop ) and you were making a project with a solid wood, glazed door.

Do yo spend X hours doing long and short shoulder m/t joints and then cut the rebates?... or do the same thing in X-95% hours by using a Domino instead of a m/t and whizz round it with a router and bearing cutter?

The result will be the same and the customer will never know the difference and what's good in the pro shop is generally worth taking note of. The same sort of argument applies equally to Chem's back panel in that unit, doing it the trad way involves things like cutting cogged dovetail joints, if memory serves.

For me, the router is a God send for this sort of application and is far and away the right tool for the job - Rob

 

[Shane]

I differ slightly, I do rebates first and stepped m+t's, and sometimes if needed I do the mouldings with a bearing guided router and square out after sanding to save scribing.

 

[Jacob]

.. just an alternative way of doing the job and perfectly acceptable. If you were in a pro cabinet 'shop (not a joiner's 'shop ) and you were making a project with a solid wood, glazed door.

No it's bad practice. A cheap way to fake the job. Not sure what you mean about a pro shop, it's the other way around. It's a cheapo joiner or amateur trick and surely wouldn't be done by a serious cabinet maker.

...The result will be the same and the customer will never know the difference

Dear oh dear that's very unprofessional. Customers aren't all suckers and you'd be outed as a cheapskate sooner or later!

 

[Chems]

I have to differ here. It's not 'bad practise' even on the best work, just an alternative way of doing the job and perfectly acceptable.

That's the best thing about you Rob, your both a traditionalist and a modernist all rolled into one, nothing is worst than these ultra traditionalists that look down on every little time saver invented.

 

[woodbloke]

I have to differ here. It's not 'bad practise' even on the best work, just an alternative way of doing the job and perfectly acceptable.

That's the best thing about you Rob, your both a traditionalist and a modernist all rolled into one, nothing is worst than these ultra traditionalists that look down on every little time saver invented.

Chems, that's nice of you to say...ta There is obviously a place for traditional work and especially in the best work but...we live in the 21century so in my view it's worth adopting the best new practices where appropriate to the sort of work each of us like to do (and we're all different) Technologies move on and whilst a lot of woodworking remains rooted in the past (for example, no one has yet produced a better alternative way of cutting wood than a toothed saw invented by the ancient Egyptians) we should still adopt newer practises where appropriate, the Domino and current topic under discussion being just two (and biscuit jointing could be included here as well) Similarly, the use of much modern machinery to take out the drudgery and sheer hard work of stock preparation - Rob

 

[Jacob]

It's not the router that's the issue - it's the bad detailing. You can do proper detailing with a router too and it's not going to take much longer, if anything.
If it's about economy then I'd highly recommend butt joints and skew nails.