General thoughts of whether better to buy a metal or wooden shed particularly if I want a stove with a chimney?

[woodlearner9810182]

As I won't have power tools wooden shed seems a better idea but metal I read is better for less upkeep and longevity.

I was thinking longevity isn't that much of a bother as long as it lasts a couple of years and I read you can 'patch it up' easier compared to a metal one, albeit that the metal one would perhaps take longer to have issues at all.

Although I had aspirations to make a shelter from wood from the land it seems much more practical to just get a cheap shed to store stuff and be able to work out of and learn the craft in some sort of comfort.

As such thinking get a shed and a cheap wood stove and/or paraffin one.

Thoughts?

 

[Terry - Somerset]

A wood stove needs clearance from combustible materials - perhaps 50cm+.

For a wood shed this could mean that (say) a floor area 1.2 x 1.2m would be required for adequate all round clearance - unless the shed is quite large you would find that the stove dominates the space and renders it much more difficult to use.

Paraffin stove may need less clearance but produces a lot of moisture - not such good news even for hand tools. They were/are often used in greenhouses. It may be easier to put a simple flue on a paraffin heater - the temperature is likely to be far more predictable than for a wood stove.

 

[AJB Temple]

Unless you insulate it very effectively, metal will drip with condensation in winter and all of your tools will go rusty. With any uninsulated shed, if you heat it, you are largely heating up the outdoors.....

 

[woodlearner9810182]

A wood stove needs clearance from combustible materials - perhaps 50cm+.

For a wood shed this could mean that (say) a floor area 1.2 x 1.2m would be required for adequate all round clearance - unless the shed is quite large you would find that the stove dominates the space and renders it much more difficult to use.

Paraffin stove may need less clearance but produces a lot of moisture - not such good news even for hand tools. They were/are often used in greenhouses. It may be easier to put a simple flue on a paraffin heater - the temperature is likely to be far more predictable than for a wood stove.

Hmm is this another reason to get a basic 12v system and buy a diesel heater?

I have a diesel heater and cooker in my van. I was thinking to avoid using electric altogether for the shed setup but maybe it would make more economical sense?

I had thought to make a zero electric system for both heating and cooking having been cut off from energy recently due to lack of solar.

Perhaps it is better to use electric after all? Just have enough to not run out but still good to have backups in case like paraffin like you say, which is what I have been thinking of getting.

I have got my old classic petrol stove for cooking as a backup.

Of course making a campfire is always a last option provided you have a lighting source but is last resort as I hate how it bellows out smoke but that is why I would be interested in a proper small stove to manage the smoke and direct it away.

Having written that all besides the point of having a heat source inside a shed!

 

[woodlearner9810182]

Unless you insulate it very effectively, metal will drip with condensation in winter and all of your tools will go rusty. With any uninsulated shed, if you heat it, you are largely heating up the outdoors.....

Well aware of the physics of that having lived in my van exclusively for over a year!

 

[bourbon]

wood stove and cheap are never used in the same sentence. I know, I sell them for a living. Whatever heat source you go for, for gods sake fit a CO2 alarm in there

 

[woodlearner9810182]

wood stove and cheap are never used in the same sentence. I know, I sell them for a living. Whatever heat source you go for, for gods sake fit a CO2 alarm in there

What is the cheapest one possible which will have a venting system?

I was an outdoor one with a flu for only about £120. Looked the same as those £500 and upward ones.

Well maybe a large initial outlay for a traditional one but must think of the then free fuel from land if I will be planting willows. Perhaps offsets the price over a couple of years and then into pure profit?

 

[Bingy man]

wood stove and cheap are never used in the same sentence. I know, I sell them for a living. Whatever heat source you go for, for gods sake fit a CO2 alarm in there

Should that be a c/o alarm ( carbon monoxide)

 

[woodlearner9810182]

Ok, what about making a ramshackle shelter myself from what is probably 'none ideal' wood from my existing trees as compared to a cheap prefabricated shed?

I can't give the tree types but can say they are straight and are about 30-50 feet in height with whiteish mottled, scaly bark. The bark is like oak but definitely not oaks as I know what oak looks like and oak does not grow straight up like that. Any guesses and I can look up and say if looks like them or no?

EDIT: I just looked here: https://www.treeguideuk.co.uk/mini-guides/bark/

Definitely look like ridged bark as they call it but don't seem to look like any listed there though from my cursory look.

Also the ones in question have almost no crown, if that narrows it down, just straight upwards with no considerable offshoots and only a small twig like cluster right at the top of their considerable height.

The wood is rather sparse but shouldn't take many of that height to make about a 10 x 10 shed should it? Thinking dick (richard - silly word censor) proenekke style if you want to look up his videos where he built one.

Seems a simple way to make them butt to one another without needing other materials to join or more complicated joints like mortis and tenon. Maybe the latter might be better if using greenwood as was discussed in another other thread if I recall correctly as the butting method would not account for shrinkage however mortis and tenon would.

I know there will be a lot of things considered 'wrong' in terms of best practices but it doesn't have to be perfect. From the feedback I was getting before it is mainly the longevity that will be the problem with choosing unsuitable wood as well as the shrinkage from using green wood immediately and rotting issues from poor wood and being untreated.

If it lasted me a year or two though then that would be on par with a prefabricated one wouldn't it. That seems to be the consensus on the general lifespan of the cheap sheds anyway but it does sound like an exaggeration.

Regardless, I would learn a lot along the way instead making one myself. Also free and modular in that I am choosing the sizes of the parts to move and can make just to my specifications.

Then if planting willow I should have some new material to work with either by weaving or the trunks after a couple of years if the first shelter decides to give out.

The question would be how hard it would be to make compared to a prefabricated one. The difficulty is not really a problem but rather the time it would possibly take to form a proper shelter to do its duty of protecting me from the elements for further projects.

As no treating involved it will just be a case of chop and strip the bark, if I even bother to strip it if not planning on it being a long term thing, and then the joints will be the main thing which will take the time won't they?

I have a few more tools at my disposal now. A few saws of different sizes, including bow saw. Got the original hammer and chisel and various other bits I forgot now. That should give me enough for a neolithic style shelter shouldn't it but with mortis and tenon joints which seems better than using lashing unless I just use the copious brambles for that.

 

[Dave Moore]

As I won't have power tools wooden shed seems a better idea but metal I read is better for less upkeep and longevity.

I was thinking longevity isn't that much of a bother as long as it lasts a couple of years and I read you can 'patch it up' easier compared to a metal one, albeit that the metal one would perhaps take longer to have issues at all.

Although I had aspirations to make a shelter from wood from the land it seems much more practical to just get a cheap shed to store stuff and be able to work out of and learn the craft in some sort of comfort.

As such thinking get a shed and a cheap wood stove and/or paraffin one.

Thoughts?

Why not lap the wood on the walls and get a foam gun on the inside to seal the edges. Use a gun to control the foam or it goes everywhere.

 

[JimTaylor]

It all comes down to budget. My wooden workshop is lined and insulated.
Wood needs to breathe or it will rot, sealing with foam is a bad idea.
A breathable membrane between the frame and outside planking will keep the wet out. I did look at a metal option with an insulated metal skin. Was more expensive but not a huge difference in the price.

 

[TRITON]

A wood stove needs clearance from combustible materials - perhaps 50cm+.

For a wood shed this could mean that (say) a floor area 1.2 x 1.2m would be required for adequate all round clearance - unless the shed is quite large you would find that the stove dominates the space and renders it much more difficult to use.

Paraffin stove may need less clearance but produces a lot of moisture - not such good news even for hand tools. They were/are often used in greenhouses. It may be easier to put a simple flue on a paraffin heater - the temperature is likely to be far more predictable than for a wood stove.

Not sure it would need such an amount of clearance, as many tents designed for winter and in use in places like Canada have wood burning stoves in them.
Obviously there would be a bit of scorch protection at the back of the stove where canvas is concerned, but they sit pretty close to it, and theres literally no clearance on the chimney just double thick fabric

 

[woodlearner9810182]

It all comes down to budget. My wooden workshop is lined and insulated.
Wood needs to breathe or it will rot, sealing with foam is a bad idea.
A breathable membrane between the frame and outside planking will keep the wet out. I did look at a metal option with an insulated metal skin. Was more expensive but not a huge difference in the price.

Well my van knowledge will carry over here it seems.

I did not like the idea of 'vapour barrier' membranes which are popular in the vanlife insulation field. So many big egos too around their way of doing it which I found bizarre when getting into it.

I opted for cork for insulation and rockwool, both which are said to be breathable. Of course the metal skin isn't but I also have fans running 24/7 for that.

Sounds like my job would be easier in terms of breathability if going for wood. Also the original issue of being able to cut a hole for a wood stove.

Also what is the difference between putting a cheap one, for £100 odd, like this below in, which is for camping and tent use vs one of those that are £500 and up?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/REDCAMP-Ca...ve&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1733125905&sr=8-10

 

[Terry - Somerset]

Not sure it would need such an amount of clearance, as many tents designed for winter and in use in places like Canada have wood burning stoves in them.
Obviously there would be a bit of scorch protection at the back of the stove where canvas is concerned, but they sit pretty close to it, and theres literally no clearance on the chimney just double thick fabric

You may be right - OTOH I found this other site which purports to be authoritative Wall tent shop

Perhaps it depends on the size of the stove and shed - the OPs original question was in respect of a shed which I assumed may be "normal" shed sized - eg: 12x8 - say 100-150 sq ft.

 

[woodlearner9810182]

You may be right - OTOH I found this other site which purports to be authoritative Wall tent shop

Perhaps it depends on the size of the stove and shed - the OPs original question was in respect of a shed which I assumed may be "normal" shed sized - eg: 12x8 - say 100-150 sq ft.

Well I have been living in a space only about 2 metre long x 1m wide x 1m something high for over a year so even if your original estimation is correct I think it will be a luxury compared to what I am used to!

I think 10 ft x 10 ft is a good size for storage of tools and workspace and bit for sitting around and such.

Living in the above I have learned to be very economical with space. I think of it like how city planning must be for very densely populated inner city districts like downtown tokyo.

 

[Jameshow]

Well my van knowledge will carry over here it seems.

I did not like the idea of 'vapour barrier' membranes which are popular in the vanlife insulation field. So many big egos too around their way of doing it which I found bizarre when getting into it.

I opted for cork for insulation and rockwool, both which are said to be breathable. Of course the metal skin isn't but I also have fans running 24/7 for that.

Sounds like my job would be easier in terms of breathability if going for wood. Also the original issue of being able to cut a hole for a wood stove.

Also what is the difference between putting a cheap one, for £100 odd, like this below in, which is for camping and tent use vs one of those that are £500 and up?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/REDCAMP-Ca...ve&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1733125905&sr=8-10

I would get one of these we have one I a cabin on the farm where my daughter goes horse riding..

It produces ample heat for 16x8 cabin tbh.

I'd make a 8x8 shed out plywood big enough to live in and work in put a small kitchen area at the back with your stove and you still have enough room for a bed and workshop area in front of it?

Make the bed / sofa folding so that the whole are area is clear during the day?

Put a plywood sheet over your kitchen area so that it doubles up as a workbench?

 

[Blackswanwood]

If you Google “wood burning stoves for tents” or “wood burning stoves for sheds” loads come up.

As I understand it burning seasoned/dry wood will produce less moisture/ condensation than burning diesel. You still need to be careful about CO poisoning though. Burning green wood is far less efficient and will produce a lot more water vapour.

Giving opinions on building a shelter from your trees without seeing them is no more than a guess. It does feel like you are steering the thread back to the topic already covered by the previous thread.

For pros and cons of metal or wooden sheds for workshop purposes plus construction methods it may be worth having a browse of the workshop build thread.

Perhaps a bell tent or teepee (as shown in some of the sites selling stoves) would do the job?

 

[Majimoto]

Would you consider using pallets? They can be filled with insulation and covered with plastic sheeting / waterproof material on the outer face and boards on the inner face.

I'm lining an old agricultural shed with such a structure to make a new workshop.
Pallets are easily available where I come from.

Wood for firing needs to be very dry to make for efficient burning. Minimum of 14%. Difficult to get willow or sally to that content.

Good luck with whatever you decide upon.

 

[TRITON]

Well I have been living in a space only about 2 metre long x 1m wide x 1m something high for over a year

Sounds like you're living in a dungeon. Though what exactly kind of dungeon i dare not speculate about.

 

[Jameshow]

I would get one of these we have one I a cabin on the farm where my daughter goes horse riding..

It produces ample heat for 16x8 cabin tbh.

I'd make a 8x8 shed out plywood big enough to live in and work in put a small kitchen area at the back with your stove and you still have enough room for a bed and workshop area in front of it?

Make the bed / sofa folding so that the whole are area is clear during the day?

Put a plywood sheet over your kitchen area so that it doubles up as a workbench?

Didn't include the link!!

https://belltentboutique.co.uk/prod...Gxbzh3Hwp40ojZdmaPQnxpsG6T1yF54BoCUWAQAvD_BwE