Gaining accuracy

[curlycomber]

I am currently doing my 1st year of a 2 year ICA Carpentry course and I am thoroughly enjoy it and learning and re-learning.

My question is how much practice does it take to make say, an accurate dovetail joints. We had an this exercise given to us we did it once, it got marked then we moved on. My lecturer was OK with my work but I wanted it to be much better.

I am not trying to be something I am not I just want to be able to produce all my work to a good standard so as to be able to offer this as a skill to go with others I feel I have to make a living sometime in the near future.

 

[seanybaby]

Welcome to the forum

I'm also at college, but doing Furniture Production. I think doing a joint once, will never be perfect, practice, practice and more practice. It took me probably more than 10 dovetails to get to a good accurate standard. After 16 months most of my dovetails are very good and get distinction levels at college, however i would not say they are 'perfect'.

You say your doing Carpentry, tbh. i'm not sure you would actually use that many dovetails in a working environment?

ps. very sharp chisels help enormously, and sharpening is another skill to practice. :wink:

Good luck with your course

 

[curlycomber]

Many thanks seanybaby you are correct about rarity of dovetails on site. I suppose what I should have said is that it is a complex joint and if I can do that well then most other jobs would encompass some or many of the processes involved in that joint.

 

[OPJ]

The most important thing is to have accurate marking out - it's worth spending time to get this right, or else you'll end up going wrong all over the place. Then, it's a case of practice, practice, practice, like Sean said, until you find yourself at that level of confidence where you can just 'switch off' and go.

I finished my ACA in Carpentry and Joinery in 2006 and I can only remember cutting one dovetail joint in the three-years I was there and that was a single lap dovetail in a piece of 3"x2" or something.

It wasn't until I returned to college in September (Furniture Studies) that I discovered the cutting gauge (excellent for defining your shoulder line or lands) and found a new use for the coping saw (easily clears most of the waste between pins and tails).

Sharpening is a skill that took me a couple of years to get used to and I still don't think I've quite got it sussed... Lock your wrists and move with the chisel. Use as much of the stone as possible. But, first of all, you want a nice, flat back on your iron/chisel.
If your course is anything like mine was, you probably only have access to oilstones in your workshop. Really, for fine dovetail joints (particularly in hardwood) you want something above the fine grade oilstone for that extra fine touch to your tools. I use a ceramic stone, but there are many others ways people do it.

 

[Chris Knight]

Well made dovetails are traditionally taken as a mark of craftsmanship but they are not an especially difficult joint to cut. Japanese carpentry techniques probably boast dozens much more difficult. A fairly ordinary joint I find harder to make accurately is a mortice with through tenon (non-wedged)

 

[curlycomber]

Thank you OPJ

Interesting about only one dovetail in the course, it was hinted to me by the lecturer that we probably won't do it again.

But a newbie to this I felt challenged and as I said the multi facets to that process I thought a lot of practice would improve my dovetails as well as marking, sawing and chiselling.

Good point about the sharpening that may not feature highly enough. In my defence I am new to this and keen to hear all points

 

[curlycomber]

......not an especially difficult joint to cut.

One day I will be able to say that... roll on that day

 

[Digit]

it was hinted to me by the lecturer that we probably won't do it again.

Oh God! Somethings never change it seems. During my college days we had to learn a formula in the maths class, when I asked the lecturer what function this particular formula performed, he replied, 'None! The exam board simply want to know if you can work through it!'
Talk about 'how many beans make five?'

Roy.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

how much practice does it take to make say, an accurate dovetail joints... I wanted it to be much better.

I'll start by asking a few questions for you to ponder.

*Are you a rugby player, skateboarder, football player, or take part in any other hobby you enjoy?
*Are you any good at you hobby or sport?
*Let's say you're a rugby player. Could you drop kick the ball over the bar from out somewhere near the touchline and between the 10 and 22 metre lines the first time you tried?
*If you are good at your sport or hobby, how many hours practice did you have you put in, and continue having to put in?

Answer those questions for yourself and you're a long way to answering how much practice you need to get good at executing joinery.

In a sense it's true to say that if it was easy, every man and his dog could do it with their eyes closed. Making things look effortless and easy requires constant practice. Natural talent only takes you to the first post. The rest, ie, making it look natural and easy requires constant learning, study, practice and a determination to push yourself to places you never dreamed you could get to. Slainte.

 

[Anonymous]

Well made dovetails are traditionally taken as a mark of craftsmanship but they are not an especially difficult joint to cut. Japanese carpentry techniques probably boast dozens much more difficult. A fairly ordinary joint I find harder to make accurately is a mortice with through tenon (non-wedged)

I agree 100% with Chris

I cut around 3-4 sets of DTs before I was happy that they were a very good fit.

hand-cut M&T is more difficult to get spot on in my experience

 

[curlycomber]

I am glad that the hand cut M&T has come up as a tricky joint, as after the dovetail the M&T is the other one I am having trouble getting right.

Lucky for me I posted this topic I feel less frustrated and will take on all points raisied.

Thanks

 

[OPJ]

I agree with Tony on the mortice and tenon joint. Unless you're prepared to leave extra on the tenon's thickness and pare it all back! :roll:

The benefit of hand-cutting and lap, double lap or secret mitre dovetail joint is that not all of the joint is going to be seen. :wink:

 

[Digit]

My particular hate is the Mitre joint, it looks dead easy to do, which it is, but damned hard to do perfectly, I find.

Roy.

 

[OPJ]

I find the hardest part of the secret mitred dovetail to be the actual mitre. I've had a few goes at college (without a 45 degree block to guide) and although I got a near-perfect fit with my first attempt, the joint wasn't 90 degrees. My next one was just about at a right-angle, but the joint wasn't as tidy! :roll:

Just started using a piece of timber with a 45 degree bevel to guide the timber and this should sort it, I hope. The next problem is that you have to keep to your live without overcutting. And keep the shoulders true.

 

[gidon]

CC
FWW had an article recently on a "5 minute dovetail"- it wasn't so much an excercise in dovetails as an general woodworking exercise. It's worth a look. The trouble is even if you practice and can do a good job - if you don't cut one for a year it can be tricky getting those same results. Same goes for other joints and (especially hobby) woodworking generally.
Cheers
Gidon
(PS if you want the PDF and don't have access PM me)

 

[gidon]

My particular hate is the Mitre joint, it looks dead easy to do, which it is, but damned hard to do perfectly, I find.

Roy.

In my experience you have to finish off on a decent shooting board. I also tape together opposing pieces if they are not too thick - to keep them the exact same length.

Cheers

Gidon

 

[Digit]

That's what I now do Gidon, I think it's the only way.

Roy.