Furniture Making Courses

[fatica23]

Hi,

I am currently studying level 2 in carpentry & joinery. However when I finish the course I want to get into furniture making. I have look at uni courses but they are all based on "design" rather than the making.... so I have started looking furniture making schools. I live in the Northwest of England and so far all the courses i've found are based down South. Also they are very pricey!!!

Any help would be appreciated I want to know if there is furniture making courses in the Northwest or if there is any another route I could take i.e apprenticeships


Cheers,

 

[marcros]

http://www.christribefurniturecourses.com/ is worth a look.

 

[Glynne]

You might also want to have a word with Roger Berwick (Dodge on the Forum) as to what training he would recommend?
As well as being a professional cabinet maker, Roger does offer 1:1 training and several on the forum here (myself included) have benefited from his expertise - including I think, one student who wanted to take up cabinet making professionally.
Although Roger is based down South, it might even be worth a day or 2 with Roger to actually get a view on how good your skills are and he can certainly advise on the practicalities of woodwork as a business rather than a hobby.

http://www.rogerberwick.com

 

[fatica23]

Thanks Marcros,

by the looks of things all furniture making schools are going to be super expensive! if anyone could advise me on another option for studying wood, furniture and cabinet making please let me know. so far I have had no luck getting an apprenticeship in my local area, the course I am studying at the moment is 80% site based and only 20% bench

cheers,

 

[fatica23]

Thanks for the advise Glynne

 

[marcros]

i guess that the cheapest way of learning is by having a go, and identifying specific areas that you need help on. Do you need any furniture for home that you could start by making to build your skills?

 

[Glynne]

That is really the way Roger works. You choose a project (console table in my case) and build it together.
By actually working that way (and being 1:1), Roger can let you know what you are doing right (not too much in my case) and can then help you develop where you need to improve. As it is an actual project, you can cover hand tools, power tools, machinery and dare I say it - sharpening! Anything is up for discussion.
The emphasis is that there are many ways to skin a cat and for example, Roger had me cutting mortices by hand, with a morticer and with a router just to show that there isn't necessarily a definitive way of doing things. As I said I'm an amateur and so time and to a certain extent cost constraints don't come into things for me but for a professional that will be a different story and again you get advice from someone who is a cabinet maker for a living.
More as recommendation for Roger than showcasing any skills I may have (ha!), this is the table we produced in 5 days.

PS The disater area in the background is my workshop and not Roger's - I had to put a final finish on the table back at the ranch.

 

[Lee J]

The Level 1 course at York College covered the following :

Sharpening (chisels, planer blades, scrapers)
Basic joints (dovetail, half lap, mitres)
Glue ups/clamping
Veneering, binding
Drawer construction
Small bit of frame glazing
Although the course was mainly using hand tools we did get to use the router a bit.
Theory modules covered the History of Furniture, Health & Safety in the Workshop and wood identification

The course was £400 for the academic year and ran 6pm - 9pm every Tuesday evening.

But the most beneficial thing was the experience of the tutor. He'd been a furniture maker for years and really showed you some good tips and tricks.

 

[custard]

by the looks of things all furniture making schools are going to be super expensive

Full time private training costs about £1500 to £2000 per month. That's probably a fair reflection of the costs associated with providing that training so I don't have a quarrel with the expense, but I do object to the way furniture making training is sometimes "sold". The idea that nine to twelve months of training prepares you for a new career as an independent cabinet maker is just laughable.

Firstly because it takes far longer than that before you're equipped with the necessary skills and experience.

And secondly because the harsh reality is that no matter how skilled and experienced you are it's extremely difficult to earn a living wage as a designer/maker of free standing, commissioned furniture. There are no statistics on the numbers of designer/makers in the UK, but it's certainly less than 100, and some knowledgeable insiders but the real number at less than 50.

Just ask yourself why so many furniture makers need to augment their income with teaching, or renting out bench space, or selling tools, or writing books and articles? The answer is because that's the only way they can keep the lights on. That's the harsh reality, and before encouraging people to take out a huge loan in the romantic hope of becoming the next Alan Peters, they have a moral obligation to explain these realities.

 

[Woodmonkey]

There are no statistics on the numbers of designer/makers in the UK, but it's certainly less than 100

If there are no statistics then how can you say?

 

[custard]

There are no statistics on the numbers of designer/makers in the UK, but it's certainly less than 100

If there are no statistics then how can you say?

The British Designer Maker Association lists 180 members, but it's generally recognised that the majority of them aren't practising as designer/makers. However, no one actually knows what the real number is. Most people I talk to say far less than 100, some people I talk to who are intimately plugged into what is actually a very small world say they believe there are less than 50 UK workshops in the Alan Peter mould.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Look on yell.com for furniture designers/makers, there's 4 pages worth just in Bristol. There are plenty of people making a living out of it, next Alan peters or not. You don't need to be registered to an association to be a designer maker of furniture. That's just my opinion of course!

 

[custard]

Woodmonkey, maybe I should have made myself clearer. I don't dispute that lots of people make a living working in wood; fitted kitchens, shopfitting, joinery, yacht fit outs, the list goes on. But very, very few make a living exclusively from designing and making commissioned, free standing furniture. I'm close enough to the designer/maker world that I see the reality behind the slick web sites. I know outstanding craftsmen who have tried and failed to make a go of it, and I know others who eke out a hand to mouth existence despite stellar skill levels and years of hard won experience.

The point I'm trying to make is that some (not all, but some) of the providers of private training sell an overly rosy picture of designer/maker career opportunities and I think that's wrong.

 

[marcus]

Spot on Custard, you can make a living doing built-ins for sure, but that way of life is absolutely nothing like the dream sold by some fine furniture making courses, and those courses don't give you the skills you need to survive in the commercial joinery world anyway.

Generally people who advertise as furniture designer/makers are also doing a lot of fitted work and joinery. Those who aren't usually have some alternate income source to enable them to keep going. There's a tiny minority left who are making ends meet solely by doing freestanding bespoke fine furniture. Besides being good at what they do they also need to be consummate salespeople, have very good contacts, and be able to relate to and impress the people who have serious money. Also they need enough capital behind them to keep a workshop and home going for the difficult early years.

The people making the most money from fine furniture making are generally those teaching it — worth considering before you put your hard earned readies down if making a living at the end is one of your priorities. If you want to make a living from the furniture end of woodworking, a more sensible course would be to apprentice yourself to someone who makes bespoke fitted kitchens etc, and then develop the fine freestanding stuff in your spare time if you are interested in it.

Another approach is to set out to be a maker, rather than a designer/maker, and sell your talents to designers, so that your clients are designers, architects etc rather than the public. Some people make this work — you have to be able to work to a very high standard, be very commercially minded, and very fast. You can't learn that on a one year course. Again apprenticeship in a workshop that does this kind of work would be the best way to go, though to be fair you will be more likely to get such an apprenticeship if you have done a course first.

Anyone can do a course and use the pieces they made on it to make a nice website. Doesn't mean they're making a living.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

There are no statistics on the numbers of designer/makers in the UK, but it's certainly less than 100, and some knowledgeable insiders but the real number at less than 50.

Are you sure about that? Where are you getting your statistics from, because I've never heard of the British Designer Makers Association. There is a Designer Makers Association, but their membership is mostly made up of crafts other than furniture designer makers, e.g., jewellers, ceramicists, glass artists, textile artists, calligraphers, etc. Perhaps you're referring to a different organisation?

There are, at my last count (roughly fifteen minutes ago) 191 members of DMOU (Designer Makers Organisation of the United Kingdom), and I am aware that there are more independent furniture designer makers that are not members of this organisation, nor of its associated body, NCFM (Northern Contemporary Furniture Makers).

The Worshipful Company of Furniture Makers caters for a wide range of those involved in the furniture industry, ranging from single person businesses to large companies: for example, ercol (I think) has an association with the Furniture Makers, as do FIRA, and after I logged on to the members area of the Furniture Makers website I could see there are more than 300 members listed. Granted, not all are individual furniture designer makers and many are in associated professions, etc.

Looking north, the SCFM (Scottish Furniture Makers) claim to have approximately 70 members, and looking at their website I see several names of designer makers I either know personally, or know of by reputation.

I suspect you'll find there are more furniture designer makers than just fifty. And whilst I agree that the number of individual furniture designer makers, or small businesses in that field making a good living is quite small, I don't think it's quite as small as you are suggesting. The other point I'm making is that there are still ways for those with a craft furniture designing and making background to make a fulfilling living as creative and inventive woodworkers of one sort or another, whether that be fitted kitchens, conversions, shop-fitting, public art, sculptural works, etc. This is something that I have always emphasised strongly to the students that have studied and do study on the course I run. Sadly, for me I guess, and for those that wish to study the subject, my course will be closing down at the end of this academic year for a variety of reasons, e.g., the space they take up in the college compared to the footprint less space hungry students need.

I can't judge what the private furniture courses claim to prepare their students for, but I agree with you that a year's training in intensive craft skills is unlikely to fully prepare someone for a career as a single person craft furniture designer maker: for that matter the three years leading up to my student's BA (Hons) seldom fully prepares someone for such a role, and the qualification is generally just the first few steps up a ladder, with plenty more to learn and practice after that! It is a very tough field to enter with a limited number of potential clients as you say. However, high level craft skills can be adapted to the other fields, and more, some of which I mentioned above. Slainte.

 

[marcus]

I was working at a school near Winchester a while ago making some fitted kitchens, and this bloke wandered in to have a chat. He had done the Barnsley training (one of the most highly regarded fine furniture courses in the country) a year before, and said he wanted to smell wood again and have a chat. He was a bit down in the dumps as since the course he had not been able to do any furniture making work, and had drifted into a bit of site carpentry, which he hated (nothing like the dream!). He was on the point of going back to his old job in the city.

His story is repeated endlessly at pretty much all of these one year courses. Person is sick of his job, reads a romantic ad for furniture making course, or perhaps comes across one of Krenov's books (fatal!). Fortunately the job he is doing has been pretty well paid, or he has a well paid and very understanding partner, so he can go off and train for a year at a furniture school. He has a great year, falls in love with it all, and tries to set up on his own. Makes nice website, hangs on for year or two spending the rest of his savings. Tries to make ends meet by doing joinery, but hates it, and still loses money because he has no experience of site work (which is a demanding skill in itself). Goes bust, and goes back to original job.

That is the usual story and several people I know (all of whom were very good at furniture making by the end of it) have followed that pattern. The more sensible people will do the course, then try and get a job in a commercial workshop. Then, with several years experience under their belts, open their own workshop — but almost certainly this will have to include a lot of work other than fine furniture making.

Unfortunately the days of government funded furniture making courses are pretty much over, because the government wants to fund training for things that are economically viable, so training courses need to charge commercial rates. (Having said that, some people are making a killing as the course prices have gone up vastly more than inflation over the last few years — probably because there are enough disillusioned city folk with bonuses to spend to enable them to get away with charging those prices...).

If you can't afford training, then an apprenticeship with a joiner who works at the fitted furniture end of the trade is a way towards a viable living. If you can afford to do a course first, then so much the better — you'll have a good time, and be more employable — but still only as a beginner!

I agree with Slainte that there are ways to be creative with all this, and there are ways to carve out a niche for oneself. I know someone who has done well doing commissions for public buildings for example. If someone is determined I would still say 'go for it', but with your eyes open — just don't underestimate how difficult it is, or how much it all costs!

 

[Peter Sefton]

I have a variety of students join our long courses, I do not make any wild claims about them starting their own workshops when they finish but some do. I was self employed at the age of 18 and ran my own workshops at the age of 21, and as Norman Tebbit told us at the time I got on my bike and found work. It was hard, very hard on occasions but a real apprenticeship in all areas.
Becoming a Designer maker is the ideal for a lot of budding furniture makers and we should all be allowed to dream, but you are right this is not an easy ask and I take responsibility for the students' future very seriously. They do make a large commitment to us and I cannot (and do not) promise the road will be easy or necessarily financially rewarding. I do say don't go into fine furniture making to make money - do it to because you love it, want to make furniture and have a better life style. If you are only motivated by money there are much better paid professions than art and crafts.

If you're a very talented and quick maker, a good designer and a good businessman, you could do well but you do have to be all three and work very hard. We cover business studies and marketing very throroughly and students have to write a business plan.
I do wherever possible get my students into work placements and jobs when they have finished and feel this is the best way for them to gain speed and experience. The mature students generally do not wish to follow this career path and that is fine - it's their choice and they want to do something more fulfilling for themselves. Some have already made their money, are semi-retired and have twenty years before they want to spend all day playing golf ...
i am afraid that as mentioned the colleges and universities are not interested in teaching furniture making, these courses are expensive to run not well funded. Some of us me included, have invested all we have to set up training workshops without any government funding to continue furniture training. This is no an easy thing to do and takes a lot of hard work - it would be great if the trade still took on apprentices and sent them to college on day release but it seems those days have gone. Who if not private schools are going to keep the trades going?
I took on a young student two years ago who was destined to join Richard at Leeds but came to us in the end, a big financial commitment for him and his parents but nine months later he finished with me on the Friday and started work on the Monday for a designer maker. He nows earns his wage furniture making - if he were at college he would still be building up his student debt rather than paying his taxes doing what he dreamt of at the age of 17.
I am very proud of what we offer and do all I can to help my students succeed in their new careers whatever part of woodworking they decide to do.

 

[marcus]

I was probably being a bit mean with my caricature, Peter, it's true that there are a wider range of students with a wider range of motivations than in the picture I painted. As you say, many people do these courses for enjoyment and don't need or want to turn it into a career — what a great way to spend a year! And if one is determined to give this line of work a try then you do need to learn somewhere, and in the absence of government funded courses they fulfil a need.

It is a big risk to start up such a course, and obviously it's often as big a risk for the people doing the course — people gamble their future financial security, home and relationships on doing these courses sometimes. So long as there is real clarity and honesty about the potential risks and rewards, and realism about what the industry is actually like to work in, then no problem!

To be fair I think most training course providers do try to do this to some extent; often it may in fact be the students who don't want to hear, or fully take onboard the implications of what they are being told. There is this fatally romantic image to woodworking, and particularly furniture making, which is very seductive, and tragically at odds with what the reality of doing it commercially is usually like.....

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"There is this fatally romantic image to ########, and particularly ########, which is very seductive, and tragically at odds with what the reality of doing it for a living is usually like..."
:lol: Fill in the blanks...

 

[marcus]

"There is this fatally romantic image to ########, and particularly ########, which is very seductive, and tragically at odds with what the reality of doing it for a living is usually like..."
:lol: Fill in the blanks...

Accountancy (and particularly internal auditing). :?