Fun with 'Y' levers.....

[woodbloke]

Wouldn't it be more elegant from an engineering point of view, to solder two ~3mm slips to the back of the cap iron, about 10mm sq., to drop into the blade's long slot? This also keps the length of the lever short, so the blade adjustment does not coarsen as a result of the modifcation. This method also allows modest adjustment of bladeEdge-to-adjuster length (greater with thicker iron)

Moreover, you can sucessfully bond them in place with (industrial) superglue (lasted 5 yrs so far, allows use of a 5mm blade)

Problem with soldering or even silver soldering is finding a heat source big enough, normal gas torches probably wouldn't be big enough so gluing is a better solution, heat may aslo distort the CB which is a definate 'no no' - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Moreover, you can sucessfully bond them in place with (industrial) superglue (lasted 5 yrs so far, allows use of a 5mm blade)

Hi Ivan,

When you say 'industrial superglue', can you recommend a particular product and suggest where it is available from? Another point we were discussing at our bash was the backlash which you sometimes get where the other end of the 'Y' lever engages with the adjuster nut. One way to solve this would be to reduce the gap by fitting a brass washer. One could possibly do this by cutting the washer in half (because that would be the only way to get it on) and superglue the two halves in place.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[ivan]

Paul, I was recommended Loctite 330 multibond - a 2 part cyanoacrylate/accelerator pack. I discussed what I wanted to do with the local Loctite distributor (bearing/transmission specialist from yellow pages). I was originally asking about bonding 2 plane blades together to experiment (you couldn't buy blades 4 or 5mm thick then) It did this OK, and I'm still using a double ironed* Stanley block plane, and modified clifton 2 part cap irons are still good. I had intended to reinforce the glue bond with 3mm csk setscrews, but never got round to it. Probably all fail next week!

330 is quite thick and somewhat gap filling, I would think one of the low viscosity versions could be better for small slips. Industrial 'superglues' are made for specific purposes, like bonding metals or rubber for making O rings etc. General purpose superglue may be OK, certaily for experimenting, but the proper stuff is intended to provide a lasting bond. Haven't checked, but there may be a selection guide at loctite.com

* samuai and original, anealed

 

[Paul Chapman]

Thanks, Ivan, that's very helpful.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[newt]

Reference the issue of the slop with the Y piece in the adjusting knob. In a book I have it says try and bend forward or back just one one the Y arms. If this can be done (if it is cast steel probably not) it means that one arm touches the back face of the knob and the other the front face, hence no slop. And guess what, I looked at my new LN bronze No4 and that is exactly how it is configured. Paul I have PM'd you on another issue.

 

[newt]

I made a new Y lever out of brass for my old stanley No4. With the old Y lever it had 2.5 turns of back lash, it now has half a turn. Mind you it took a whole day on the milling machine, quite a complex shape.

 

[woodbloke]

Newt - look forward to seeing that on the 09 Jun, sounds interesting - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Sounds cool, Newt 8) 8)

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[bugbear]

One of the things that came out of our very enjoyable Microbash yesterday (that Philly couldn't get to but is coming to the next one ) was the vexing question of 'Y' levers on Record and Stanley planes. There's no question that fitting a better blade, of whatever breed, makes a huge difference to the way the plane performs but, and here's the rub, they're generally much thicker than the standard offering and so the 'Y' lever barely engages on the CB.

This has been discussed before; there are two ways around getting the Y to engage the cap-iron; bring the Y up or the cap down!

Here are both approaches, nicely done, written up and illustrated by Jarviser:

* cap iron DOWN
http://www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/backlash1.html

* Y lever UP
http://www.jarviser.co.uk/jarviser/tools1.html

Hmm. Since the Jeff Gorman "tabs" idea is on the cap iron, the vendors of after market blades who ALSO sell after market cap irons (e.g. Hock, LN) could (very...) usefully supply this form, eliminating the need for the 'umble woodworker to have brazing facilities.

BugBear

 

[David C]

BB,

Great links,

Thank you,

David

PS it has ocurred to me that this method could also be used to rescue a chipbreaker which is the "wrong length" for a particular plane.
I come across this more often than I would expect, and think it is due to CB/capirons getting swapped about or replaced by people who are not aware of the length issue.

Riveting also comes to mind as a further fixing posibility.

Also, I suspect that Mick at Clifton would probably be happy to supply longer Y levers for a small fee, and I wonder if they would fit after a little fettling? Clifton's blades are very thick.

 

[Paul Chapman]

Clifton's blades are very thick.

Hi David,

That's my Record #04 in the original post on this thread. Soldering an extra piece of metal to the Clifton 'Y' lever wasn't entirely successful because the metal used by Clifton for their 'Y' levers is quite soft (soldering works OK with the older Record 'Y' levers). The solution Rob came up with in the end was this:

A 2.3 mm hole was drilled in the 'Y' lever like this

A piece of 3mm gauge plate was then drilled and joined to the 'Y' lever using industrial strength super glue and a piece of 2.3mm sprung steel

This is the finished job after cleaning up

And this is it fitted to the plane

I use that plane regularly and the modification has been completely successful.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[David C]

Paul,

Another great solution ~;-)#

David

 

[Digit]

It must be the older planes then, here I must bare my soul and confess to being tight with money, like I haven't got any! So all my metal planes, bar one, are car boot purchases and they've all been fitted with irons from old wooden planes and the 'Y' levers all needed extending, so I built them up with weld and filed them to shape, nothing melted.
Things ain't like they use to be!
Alf, I took over a new dept in a factory once and had to teach 46 women to solder, only one failed to learn. It's one of those tasks that once you have acquired the skill you wonder what all the fuss was about.

Roy.

 

[Chris Knight]

Paul,

Another great solution ~;-)#

David

I guess you mean buy the Krenov and use that instead?

 

[ivan]

Looks more complicated than adding 2 mild steel slips to the back of the cap iron! Superglue works well for a trial. To avoid distortion through uneven heating forget brazing, drill tap and setscrew.

Modifying the Y lever can reduce adjustment sensitivity by about half. If the cap iron is intended to always be used with very thick blades, thick slips improve the sensitivity noticeably.

 

[David C]

Ivan,

Good thinking, re heat & brazing.

I was rather fancying some small rivets?

David

 

[ivan]

Would do very well! I'm old enough to remember when ironmongers stocked rivets (wonderful dark places; we had one, 4/fork (c)'andles style, as big as a department store when I was small) . Where do you get yours nowadays?

For this job I guess drill, shallow csk, and stub of ms rod (nail) would do, as per infill plane rivetting.

 

[David C]

Yes there was an ironmonger like that in Beaconsfield were I grew up, wonderful place.

When you asked for a dozen 5/8inch, number 5, contersunk head, brass screws, you automatically were given a couple of matching steel screws.

I have no good rivet supplier but might try model engineering suppliers like GLR ditributors. Any other ideas please?

Would also use short section of round nail.

best wishes,
David

 

[woodbloke]

This little modification wot I concocted does work quite well with the Clifton 'Y' levers which appear to be made from some sort of alloy only slightly harder than soap. When the modification is filed it will work better if the lever is filed to the approximate shape of an involute gear tooth, in other words, not parallel but slightly curved, a tiny dab of grease on bearing surfaces also helps. It's also is useful to relieve the underside of the rectangular slot with a needle file on the CB as well. The mod is not designed to remove the backlash from the adjustment wheel, it just serves to bring a bigger area of metal into contact with the CB slot which is not available without some sort of mod as the existing 'Y' lever is too short - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

Of course, if you want the ultimate 'Y' lever you can always do what Pete (Newt) did and machine one from solid brass........

Cheers :wink:

Paul