Front door, moisture content?

[condeesteso]

I will soon be making a front door for someone - to suit a Victorian house (in Brockley, but that's fairly irellevant). It will be painted, but one question is, what is the ideal moisture content prior to priming. I'm a bit wary on this as it has one side central heating etc, the other the best that our weather can throw at it. It happens to be south west facing by the way. I am guessing if anything a tiny bit of shrinkage is better than any swelling, and I do want a nice close fit.
Wood choice is likely to be hemlock or Douglas fir... any recommendations welcome also.

 

[Mar_mite]

I've made a couple of front doors out of Doug fir. To be honest I've never checked the moisture content of any timber I've used. Just made the door and hung it. I don't think there were any problems. I did leave a generous gap, around 4mm between door and jamb.

 

[Jacob]

Redwood is cheaper, holds paint better and very traditional. The main thing is to allow for shrinkage/expansion. This means making sure any panels are floating loosely with good clearance in the slots across the grain. Mortice and tenons need to be glued only at the root so that movement shows as protruding/receding tenon ends rather than a gap between stile and rail. Bolection mouldings pinned to the stiles and rails - not the panel. Etc.

 

[condeesteso]

That's all good, thanks. I've yet to visit and see the frame, so that needs a close look anyway.
Re redwood, one yard locally said yes but then called it Scots pine. Another offered me some big boards of an unknown cedar (air-dried and good stuff)... is 'redwood' also Scots pine?

 

[Jacob]

.. is 'redwood' also Scots pine?

Yes. The tree is scots pine, the wood is "redwood" but also goes by other names, red deal etc. No relation to redwood the American tree.
What you want is grade "unsorted" Swedish redwood. This is the best stuff which in the old days would have been sorted into 1st, 2nds, 3rds, but nowadays we have "Unsorted" followed by 4th, 5 ths.

 

[Mr_P]

Is it worth paying extra for Swedish ?

Aberdeen and Gothenburg look to share the same latitude but guess Gothenburg doesn't have the same benefits of the gulf stream we enjoy.

 

[Jacob]

Even north Scotland scot's pine is wider grained and inferior (slightly) due to warmer climate than north Sweden or Russia. I'd certainly have a look at it however, if it was offered.

 

[RobinBHM]

Ive not had much success using unsorted redwood for doors to be honest, whether solid or laminated. I think your suggestion of hemlock or dug fir would work well. I wouldnt worry about moisture content too much, although you could condition the timber by leaving it outside but out of the rain, for a while. Large joinery companies do have humidity control so timber doesnt end up too dry.

Be careful if the door is to be painted a dark colour, it might suffer if it gets sun on it.

 

[condeesteso]

Many thanks for all the info and experience! I will be going to 2 yards next week to inspect what is on offer. I'm looking for slow-grown close grain. The guy I spoke to was vague about where the redwood came from, makes me suspicious. I'll pay more for better raw material because the labour is the big cost bit anyway. I'll let you know what I find.
Re moisture, a man at Morgans who I know said straight out of their covered stores was good - meaning I think about 11 - 12% (my workshop tends to stabilise around 9 - 10%), so definitely not over-dry. This makes sense I think, better a little shrinkage than expansion... ideally no movement at all of course.
I assume the point re dark colour Robin is heat from sun not reflected but absorbed. I suspect it's going to be a mid to darker tone.
PRIMERS - any thoughts please. I struggle to find a primer that really keys. I felt the old oil-based were generally much better, a lot of the water-based just don't weld themselves to the wood surface.

 

[Jacob]

Aluminium primer sticks better than any other modern paint. But I'm into linseed oil paints and have been using nothing else for the last 5 years or so. Holkham Hall paints - actually Swedish Alback paint imported, with Holkham label. Expensive at first glance but goes a long way and very easy to use.

 

[moe2003]

I would check the age of the build to ensure the style of door you make matches the period of the building so as not to make a door that would look out of place for the building and surrounding buildings.

 

[RobinBHM]

Yes, heat absorbed from the sun -a dark painted door can really bake in the sun, I cringe when asked to make a '10 downing street' door -usually huge dimensions and jet black of course.

If using softwood, I would use engineered (although m.c. usually too low) or greensplit. Making bottom /mid rails out of ex 63 x 225 is likely to result in cupping and splits.

Our technical paint rep reckons a solvent based primer provides much better adhesion to timber whilst water based top coats retain long term flexibility. Quality of paint is of course only 1 aspect, painting rebates, panels, beads and using end grain sealer all help long term.

 

[condeesteso]

all good stuff thanks. I shall investigate the Holkham, and oil-based / solvent based is what I had found before.
Other points noted Robin - sealing and priming before final ***'y, everything except joint internals, then a second prime after with particular attention to end-grain. I'll be on the lookout for the odd board close-grain on the quarter (me and everyone before me of course). The engineered is interesting, the bloke I know at Lathams said he would show me some accoya when I'm next up there.
I'm ignoring the checking of age of build on purpose (see o.p.). I mean, really?

 

[RobinBHM]

I would try and buy the ironmongery before deciding on door sections. 60mm backset night latches for example don't fit on a 100mm stile once youve allowed for profiling /rebating. The same applies to letter plates, escutcheons etc. Bolection mouldings reduce effective stile width as well. If a deadbolt is being fitted, the mortice can be done before assembly......... Just a few of the mistakes Ive made in the past!

Laminated softwood is usually made with the outer lams made from vertical grain stock, ie quarter sawn, and virtually knot free. Its available as either 6.0 metre finger jointed (the finger jointing telegraphs through the paintwork slightly), or full length laminations and are made in typical stile lengths, 2.1m, 2.4m etc.

 

[Tony Spear]

Aluminium primer sticks better than any other modern paint. But I'm into linseed oil paints and have been using nothing else for the last 5 years or so. Holkham Hall paints - actually Swedish Alback paint imported, with Holkham label. Expensive at first glance but goes a long way and very easy to use.

Didn't you have some issues with drying times of the Holkham paint?

 

[Jacob]

Aluminium primer sticks better than any other modern paint. But I'm into linseed oil paints and have been using nothing else for the last 5 years or so. Holkham Hall paints - actually Swedish Alback paint imported, with Holkham label. Expensive at first glance but goes a long way and very easy to use.

Didn't you have some issues with drying times of the Holkham paint?

Yes it was because I put it on too thick, or second coat too soon, or both. It's a bit slower than modern paints but OK if you take that into account and put it on very thinly.

 

[carlb40]

Aluminium primer sticks better than any other modern paint. But I'm into linseed oil paints and have been using nothing else for the last 5 years or so. Holkham Hall paints - actually Swedish Alback paint imported, with Holkham label. Expensive at first glance but goes a long way and very easy to use.

Didn't you have some issues with drying times of the Holkham paint?

Came across one of his posts while looking into that paint. :shock:

Drying time 24 hours minimum on a warm dry day, more like 2 or 3 days in average conditions

 

[Jacob]

Touch dry sooner, but you need the time for a second coat.