Front door construction.

[pren]

Me again.

I've just been asked to make a front door for my grandparents place. It's 38 1/2" wide by 79 1/2" tall. Apparently this is an odd sized door?

There's no specific design in mind just yet, but 'nothing too fancy' and 'nice and strong' is the brief :roll: :lol: It's all going to be painted white.

I think I'm leaning towards something like this but with less glazed openings and flat panels:

Looks quite straight forward. I'm thinking of using 18mm exterior ply for the panels but I'm not sure what thickness to go for with the styles and rails or type of wood? Is there a standard thickness for front doors?

The budget is undefined but pretty limited.

Also, where can I get the moulding for the bottom of the door from? Is this called a rain bead?

I was only asked to do this about an hour ago so I've not really done much research yet.

All help greatfully recieved!

 

[OPJ]

Measure the width of the rebate in the frame to make sure. Otherwise, 44/45mm (ex. 2in. sawn timber) is standard thickness for an external door. Stiles and top rails are usually finished at 95mm wide (ex. 4in.) while the bottom rail tends to be much wider (ex. 7-8in.) and either the same or slightly less on the mid rail (minimum of 6in., usually).

Thirds generally work well with panel thicknesses (15mm, in this case). You could even beef it up slightly to 18mm. You may want to put a diagonal brace on the back, inside the door. Ply would be a good option for a panel. Not only because it's being painted, but also, it shouldn't expand like a width of solid timber.

Some with say to use through tenons... I like to think that a stopped mortise and tenon is better as the joint is not 'open' to the elements... Then again, where the door edges are hidden between a frame most of the time, this is less of a problem - it's not quite like an exterior gate, which might be continually exposed. If it's being painted then, you wouldn't be able to see the exposed joints either. It's your decision!

 

[woodguy7]

Hi everyone

This is my first post here though i have been an observer for a little while. I make quite a lot of doors for a living & a couple of things you should consider. Stay away from pine as it is almost certainly going to move, twist, shrink, warp ect. I know this from experience. Mahogany is a good choice as it is much more stable & one of the cheapest hardwoods. If you need a harder wood i like ash or oak.

Regarding the thickness. Most bought doors are 45mm thick but whenever possible i like to make them 55mm thick. This is mainly to do with double glazing. To put even the thinnest d/g unit in a 45mm thick door you do not have much left for a decent glazing bead.

As for the stiles, 95mm is fine but i always use 120mm to allow a bit more room for deeper locks ect. Also with the width of door you are talking about you need to keep it in proportion.

Hope my thoughts help,

Woodguy.

 

[Digit]

38 1/2 inches is wider than norm, but are you sure? Looking at your picture the proportions indicate either a greater height or a lesser width.

Roy.

 

[SBJ]

Couple of things to add or reinforce.

Thickness - 44mm (ex 2") is standard, but if you are renewing the frame too it might be easier to use 57mm (ex 2 1/2") for DG units.

Stiles/top rail i do at 105mm (ex 9"x2", ripped in half), as mentioned more room for locks. 220mm for the bottom rail and mid rail (ex 9"x2") gives plenty of room for letter plates, weather board etc.

Through wedged mortise and tenons are the joint of choice, I wouldn't use a stub tenon. Mr Grimsdale has a good technique for wedges that makes sure the joints don't open - he might be along soon.

No need for a brace on that door. Where would you put it?

Panels - 1/3rds are ok, but have a think about what dimensions you tenons are - if they are 1/2" it's sometimes easier to stick to that, same for 18mm, 3/4" etc

Weatherboard (the bit at the bottom) should be available from you timber merchant, but you might need to machine it yourself if you cant match the timber.

Timber choices - Oak is the obvious one - (probably overkill if it's painted), sapele (mahogany) is cheaper, idigbo (paler) cheaper again but a bit softer, redwood cheapest of the lot and should be ok as long as its maintained well and bought from a decent timber merchant.

hth

 

[Steve Maskery]

Woodguy
Welcome, and your advice is excellent.
S

 

[pren]

Hi and thanks!

As per usual, this forum is the place to come for help!

I'm going to take all the details and try and mash them together to formulate some sort of plan. I'll come back with many more questions then.

Woodguy: Welcome along! I'm pleased that you took the plunge on my post. You clearly know your stuff so I'm sure your experience will be of great use here.

Digit: the pic is of some random door off of tinterweb just to illustrate what I was after.

As for materials: I would like to make it from Oak. The house in question is a pretty old (not sure exactly how old) big house in Bognor Regis. It would make me cry a little to paint Oak, tho.

Having never bought 'real' wood before, how much can I expect to pay for the required amount of rough sawn Oak and Sapele? I have a thicknesser but no planer/jointer. Is finding a straight and true length of Oak or sapele likely to be difficult? Perhaps buying PAR would be the easier yet more expensive option. :-k

 

[Digit]

For external use I finish Oak with Boiled Linseed oil, I've tried just about everything else over the years and that seems about the best, so far.

Roy.

 

[woodguy7]

Thanks for the welcomes

A ball park price for timber for an average front door in my experience is Oak £500 + vat, Ash £300 +, Mahogany £250 +, Pine not worth bothering with.
As mentioned, through mortise & tenon is the best joint but the tenons must be sawn for "fox wedges" to prevent the joint coming apart. On a door 45mm thick i would make the mortises 15mm but i would urge you to go for the 55mm thick option. If you do go for 55mm thick in Oak or Ash, 4 hinges would be advised & i nearly always use 100mm stainless steel ball bearing hinges.

Again, thanks for the welcome & i look to learn from the wealth of experience here.

Woodguy

 

[awkwood]

The ash is an unusal choice for a door, I have never used ash for an exterior project.
Does it need to be all hartwood as the sapwood is very suseptable to rot

I usually get asked for sapelle, utile, oak or iroko or ptich pine, cedar for exterior work. and old yellow pine (reclaimed type) is a traditional choice for painted work

Oak doesnt seem to take a paint finish well as it tends to crack and peel off,i often notice this with sash window sills

 

[woodguy7]

I really like Ash. It is nearly as hard as oak & much cheaper. I never use the sapwood for exterior use. I have never tried painting oak, its kind sacrilege but i am sure there is suitable primers out there that would be suitable.

I did make some double doors out of Iroke once but the wood was unbelievably hard & the grain was so wild you could hardly work with it. Maybe i just got a bad batch. As for the Cedar, lovely wood but i find it hard to get Brazilian Cedar now & can only get Western Red Cedar. In my opinion it is to soft for a front door.

Pren, if you only have a thicknesser then don't buy your timber off saw. It will always need to be faced & edged first on a surface planer. A good timber merchant should be able to dress straight & square to your dimensions no problem.

Woodguy.

 

[Digit]

The only way I have found of keeping paint on Oak is to first oil it using Danish oil.

Roy.

 

[woodguy7]

Roy

I have never heard that before. Painting on top of an oil finish sounds so crazy it might just work :idea: I think i will give that a try on a scrap piece of oak. Thanks for the tip

Woodguy

 

[Digit]

Sorry that I can't remember where I learned it but it does work, you must wait till the oil is fully dry though.

Roy.

 

[lurker]

Welcome wood guy

We like everyone here even DurdyWeekers.

 

[OPJ]

In the last issue of Good Woodworking, JFC made a series of doors in sapele and painted them white without any problems (as far as we know! :wink. As much as I don't like to recommend the use of 'exotics', it might be the better choice, if you decided against using oak... Personally, I'd avoid ash for any exterior work; it really isn't that durable.

 

[BHENRY1]

Does everyone use a through wedged tenon ? I've made exterior and interior doors for a little while now and have never used through tenons. Dont you find them ugly and also if any wettnss gets onto the door then surely a through tenon would soak it up.
p.s. Best glues for an extrior door ?

 

[woodguy7]

LOL, its a while since ive heard that phrase lurker :lol:

My glue of choice is Extramite (formaly known as cascamite)

 

[lurker]

LOL, its a while since ive heard that phrase lurker :lol:

My glue of choice is Extramite (formaly known as cascamite)

I'm a part time "tea in a bowlie" :lol:

 

[agbagb]

I've just finished making a front door for our house. I used redwood, I'll keep an eye on any movement problems but It'll be fully painted so I'm not expecting any problems on that score.

It's got through tenons with fox wedges. (twins on the bottom and middle rails). Raised panels and applied mouldings.

All the details of how I made it are here including the design and some videos.

I know some of experts may put me straight on a few things but I think the basics are right.