French Doors - do they change use of room?

[tim]

I am now doing up our house to sell. The house is oldish c 1820s and was originally two cottages that is now one dwelling. It has been significantly changed over the years and some of it well before our time.

There is a large porch/ conservatory that we refurbed a few years ago but was probably added to the house in the 60s. It is, I suppose, an external room in that you enter the hallway through the 2ft 6" thick external wall via a door. There is also a window in the wall between the porch and hall. These share a common lintel. The house was rendered when we bought it but we stripped it back to the stone and while there was s lot of repointing required the stone quality was surprisingly good - except around this door and window where the column between the two is part stone and part brick etc:

Essentially, as I am sure you agree, it looks rubbish and needs to be sorted. My favoured plan is to take out the window and door and replace the whole opening with either:

1. three folding doors (so that the opening can be made as large as poss should someone wish it to be eg in the summer),

2. one door and two fixed lights ie with the door where it is now and the fixed lights where the wall/ window is now

3. Possibly a central set of french doors and fixed sidelights.

The other option is to leave it as it is but repair and make good. This isn't my favoured option as it will take at least as long as any of the above options and probably still not look great.

So my question is, by removing the wall (and I'm only talking about the space from the outside edge of the window to the outside edge of the door) do I alter the 'use of room' for either the hall or the porch/ conservatory?

Any help, advice etc greatly welcomed.

Cheers

Tim

 

[Chris Knight]

Tim,
I'm not quite clear on which part you are referring to is it A or B in the photo below?

 

[tim]

Sorry. Its A.

My thinking is that it shouldn't be change of use since we would use external joinery ie still keeping the outside, outside and essentially just replacing a bit of wall since the rest is already door and window.

Replacement would be like so:

Cheers

Tim

 

[dickm]

Aren't there two separate building regs issues here, regarding structural stability of the wall when the pier is removed and the external wall spec if the "porch" then counts as a habitable room?
If you are going to sell shortly, with all this nonsense about HIPs, you'd probably be safer talking to building inspector and getting all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Otherwise, some jobsworth surveyor/solicitor is going to query the work and could jeopardise any sale. He said bitterly, having gone through all this last year

 

[tim]

Aren't there two separate building regs issues here, regarding structural stability of the wall when the pier is removed and the external wall spec if the "porch" then counts as a habitable room?
If you are going to sell shortly, with all this nonsense about HIPs, you'd probably be safer talking to building inspector and getting all the i's dotted and t's crossed. Otherwise, some jobsworth surveyor/solicitor is going to query the work and could jeopardise any sale. He said bitterly, having gone through all this last year

Fair points. The pier as far as we can tell is not structural - the lintel runs right across the opening.

Out of curiousity what was your tale of woe?

Cheers

Tim

 

[ike]

As I am led to believe, as long as doors/windows remain to external specification (replacements must be to current standards), you can do whatever you like. You cannot replace with internal spec components otherwise it will be claased as change of use as a house extension.

Ike

 

[Chris Knight]

I have no idea about the regs but I think doors of the folding kind like you show would be nice. Stick a few plants and a couple of white painted cane chairs in the conservatory and it could look very attractive.

 

[Shadowfax]

Tim
Ring Building Control and ask the question. They are there to help as well as to administer the Building Regulations. They have the answers.
If there are issues they will highlight them for you as that is their job, despite what some people say.
Horse's mouth is usually best.
I hope you actually get a suitable answer, by the way.

Cheers.

SF

 

[Woodmagnet]

I'd go with ike on this, fit external spec. doors, and you should have no problems. :wink:

 

[BradNaylor]

Hi Tim,

Personally I'd go with your idea of french doors with two side lights. I'm sure it would be cheaper than the concertina door and would look just fine.

You could get a decent softwood one knocked up by a local joiner for a few hundred - or do it yourself!

It looks to me from your photo that the door and window combo are a more recent development and replaced a larger opening, spanned by the lintel. As you are simply planning on returning to this arrangement I would just get on with it. By installing a relatively cheap conventional softwood french door set and painting it to match the rest of the house no-one will ever suspect it hasn't been that way for 50 years or more.

The art to selling a house is doing it up nicely, but cheaply!

Good luck in the colonies, by the way. If I didn't have the family commitments up here I'd be down having a gander at your place myself!

Cheers
Dan

 

[tim]

The house is now on the market and I thought I should update you with what I did in the front porch in the end.

Think its worked out quite well. House went in the paper on Thursday so we shall have to see whether it did work out well after all. We've had one viewing and another booked for Wed. Fingers crossed [-o<

Cheers

Tim

 

[TonyW]

Hi Tim
Only just seen your post - my comment to your original post would have been not to spend too much as you are selling. Who knows what the buyer might want - it would hurt me if they decided to destroy work I had done, particularly if I had spent a large sum :roll:

Now that it is finished I must agree it has worked out very well indeed. Even if it has not added any significant value to the property I would hope that it would help in the selling process.

Good Luck with your sale

Cheers
Tony

 

[kafkaian]

That's a very nice conclusion, well done