Fokker S11 Trainer

[Kittyhawk]

The aircraftery has been shut for a while due to a major workshop rebuild that was meant to be done inside a fortnight but ended up taking over 5 weeks.
But back in operation now and first out the door is the Fokker S11 which must be a strong contender for the ugliest aircraft ever designed award.
It was ordered by a classmate of my granddaughter, a 15 year old girl that wanted it as a gift for her grandfather, a retired Dutch Navy pilot who learned to fly in it. She had been after a plastic kitset model for him for some time as well as someone to assemble it but no one does the S11 except for a Czech company called Smer but in any event not available in NZ.
She obviously has a close relationship with her grandad so it was my pleasure to build it for her. I'm a bit of a sucker for a good story, even so I didn't give it to her for nothing but close to it.
Next on the list are a couple of Messerschmitt ME.262s. Enthused about that one.

 

[TRITON]

When are you making a start on the full sized working model of the Mosquito ?.

 

[clogs]

it's no uglier than some of the Censsnars...

we need a few photo's of the ME262's in construction pls....

 

[Kittyhawk]

When are you making a start on the full sized working model of the Mosquito ?.

Unfortunately I've had to can the Mossie. The new workshop is a bit smaller than the old one and the 52 foot wingspan makes for a bit of a problem...

we need a few photo's of the ME262's in construction pls....

It will be an interesting build but problems already in the working drawings stage. The jet engines are essentially just tubes that I planned to turn on the lathe but they are slightly elliptical in cross section. It's very slight but I suspect noticeable if ignored. Stumped about how to do it but that's the fun in tinkering about with model aeroplanes.

 

[Yorkieguy]

Wow - another splendid model. The stand really sets it off, showing the plane in flight.

As to the elliptical shape of the jet engines, you can turn elliptical shapes on a woodturning lathe by using the 'offset turning' technique. Lots of examples on YouTube. This example is turning and oval-shaped hammer shaft (which most hammer shafts are of course):

ooffset turning on a wood lathe - Bing video

Hope that helps.

 

[J-G]

The jet engines are essentially just tubes that I planned to turn on the lathe but they are slightly elliptical in cross section. It's very slight but I suspect noticeable if ignored. Stumped about how to do it but that's the fun in tinkering about with model aeroplanes.

With your skills I suspect that it would not be beyond your wit to build yourself an Elliptic Chuck! I don't mean an 'offset', a proper Elliptical.

Mine took me 2 years of research & design which culminated in a Version 3 but that is specific to a Myford Super 7.

Do a google search for David Springett - I found him after I'd designed mine!

 

[Kittyhawk]

Wow - another splendid model. The stand really sets it off, showing the plane in flight.

As to the elliptical shape of the jet engines, you can turn elliptical shapes on a woodturning lathe by using the 'offset turning' technique. Lots of examples on YouTube. This example is turning and oval-shaped hammer shaft (which most hammer shafts are of course):

ooffset turning on a wood lathe - Bing video

Hope that helps.

Thank you for the link, it is indeed helpful. I thought elliptical turning should be possible but didn't know how to go about it. Even so, trying to figure it out for my project is making my head hurt.

 

[J-G]

... I thought elliptical turning should be possible but didn't know how to go about it. Even so, trying to figure it out for my project is making my head hurt.

I can certainly understand that!! --- As I said, I took over two years trying to get my head around the concept, and then the execution.

I have no idea if my experience will be of any help, but you are welcome to see my drawings. Here is a screen shot of an exploded view.

Although it's specific to a Myford Super 7, the basic principles are useful. Although the main front plate looks as though it fouls the lathe bed, of course it actualy runs in the 'gap'.

If you have SketchUp you could at least view the complete file to see it properly in 3D.

 

[Fergie 307]

Unfortunately I've had to can the Mossie. The new workshop is a bit smaller than the old one and the 52 foot wingspan makes for a bit of a problem...

It will be an interesting build but problems already in the working drawings stage. The jet engines are essentially just tubes that I planned to turn on the lathe but they are slightly elliptical in cross section. It's very slight but I suspect noticeable if ignored. Stumped about how to do it but that's the fun in tinkering about with model aeroplanes.

I recall the 262 engines also have quite a bulge upwards in the nacelle where they locate under the wings as well, will be fun to replicate I should think. Can't wait to see them, one of my favourite aircraft and so far ahead of their time. Can I be cheeky enough to ask what your beautiful models cost?

 

[MARK.B.]

That looks superb forgive my ignorance but what are the two bits sticking out from the leading edges of the wings ?

 

[StephenArfer]

That looks superb forgive my ignorance but what are the two bits sticking out from the leading edges of the wings ?

The full-size aircraft has a pitot head mounted on the left wing only (AFAIK). All aircraft have pitot head(s) and static port(s) in one form or another. Small simple aircraft may have the static port integrated with the pitot head. The pitot pressure generated by forward airspeed enables airspeed indication The static pressure measures ambient air pressure to correct the airspeed indicator and drive the altimeter and rate of climb/descent indicator. The instruments incorporate an aneroid bellows which drives the gearing controlling the indicating needle position. Design position of the pitot head and static port is critical and needs to be in undisturbed airflow.

Well you did ask

 

[MARK.B.]

I did and thank you for a informative answer

 

[Kittyhawk]

I did and thank you for a informative answer

Me too!
I knew the things were pitot tubes but had no idea as to how they functioned. Thanks for the explanation.

Can I be cheeky enough to ask what your beautiful models cost?

They sell NZD200 which is about £95, a bit less for simple models like the Fokker S11. Courier charges nationwide in NZ is around $8 but international is a killer. The last one I sent overseas was $116 in postage.

 

[Jameshow]

Me too!
I knew the things were pitot tubes but had no idea as to how they functioned. Thanks for the explanation.

They sell NZD200 which is about £95, a bit less for simple models like the Fokker S11. Courier charges nationwide in NZ is around $8 but international is a killer. The last one I sent overseas was $116 in postage.

You under sell yourself...!

 

[AES]

Agreed 100% with the above. From what I've often read here, pricing is always a problem, but in your case Kittyhawk, I would have thought - without trying any pricing of anything I've made myself I hasten to add - that you're in the ideal situation. Your models are custom built, to order only I think, and I GUESS are going to be bought by people who have more than just a general "I like that aeroplane" interest in one of your models. Most if not all buyers are most probably in some way "connected" to the particular aircraft type being modelled.

While it may sound "unethical" or even "greedy", just thinking of the man hours involved, and the obvious care and attention to detail you put into making those models, I would have thought that the real answer to the question of "How much would it cost please?" would - or certainly could - be "As much as you're prepared to pay Sir!"

 

[Kittyhawk]

Building aeroplanes is just a hobby that pays for itself with a little bit left over and I am content with that.
The pleasure is in the research and figuring out how to do certain procedures in wood - as an example the engines on the ME262s currently under build were quite challenging but I am now satisfied with the results.
But the main thing is the customers and I have become privy to some fascinating stories and family history about the aircraft they have ordered from me. And many have become friends.
One gets to meet the nicest people in the model aeroplane business - same as on this forum.

 

[Fergie 307]

You under sell yourself...!

I thought that too. If it wasnt for the postage I would order something tomorrow at that price.
Especially when you look at some of the supposedly "upcycled" junk you see people asking stupid money for.

 

[AES]

OK Kittyhawk, I hope you didn't see what I wrote above as a criticsm. It was not intended that way. It's clearly entirely your own decision what you charge, and I must say I really do admire your approach to the "whole business".

 

[Kittyhawk]

I thought that too. If it wasnt for the postage I would order something tomorrow at that price.
Especially when you look at some of the supposedly "upcycled" junk you see people asking stupid money for.

I understand their prices though.
If building aeroplanes was a business and I wanted $20 per hour then the product would be $500 - $600 which is just crazy. I am besotted with building model aircraft but what the heck would I do with the 60 or so models that I have built so far? I can imagine the wife's reaction to that! So I am indebted to my customers because (1) they appreciate my work (2) they relieve me of the storage problem (3) they pay for my hobby.

OK Kittyhawk, I hope you didn't see what I wrote above as a criticsm.

Not at all. All things considered, I am well rewarded for what I do.

 

[thebruiser]

The aircraftery has been shut for a while due to a major workshop rebuild that was meant to be done inside a fortnight but ended up taking over 5 weeks.
But back in operation now and first out the door is the Fokker S11 which must be a strong contender for the ugliest aircraft ever designed award.
It was ordered by a classmate of my granddaughter, a 15 year old girl that wanted it as a gift for her grandfather, a retired Dutch Navy pilot who learned to fly in it. She had been after a plastic kitset model for him for some time as well as someone to assemble it but no one does the S11 except for a Czech company called Smer but in any event not available in NZ.
She obviously has a close relationship with her grandad so it was my pleasure to build it for her. I'm a bit of a sucker for a good story, even so I didn't give it to her for nothing but close to it.
Next on the list are a couple of Messerschmitt ME.262s. Enthused about that one.
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my dad would be so happy to see this sort of workmanship, he was a master founder but meddled in this sort of work especially air planes mainly Spitfire. He made allsorts of stuff at work in his brake time.