Flush Cut Saws

[chipchaser]

Hi all,

I would be grateful for some advice on fine saws to suit cutting off dowels and keys without marking the face of nearly finished work.

I bought an "Irwin Detail Pull Saw" from Screwfix, Irwin ref is 10505165. The package illustration shows it being used to cut off a dowel and it is described as single ground. When opened I found the teeth do have some set on both sides. I haven't tried it as I think it won't do the job and so may return it.

Would the Flush Cut Saws sold by Axminster suit me better for this purpose?
If so, would you recommend the the European or the Japanese type?

Thanks for any comments

Graham

 

[marcus]

Hi Graham,

I use one of these and can't fault it

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Ice-Bear-Japanese-Hassunme-Crosscut-Saw-19702.htm

Marcus

 

[PowerTool]

I use the Irwin pull saws for flush cutting dowels,plugs etc. - works well.

Andrew

 

[Mr Ed]

I have the Veritas one and its excellent.

Cheers, Ed

 

[PAC1]

Another Veritas user

 

[OPJ]

I've used the Irwin ones and they do work well. I did find that the blades tend to blunt fairly quickly and, more recently, I've found spare blades quite hard to come by... Which is why I eventually went for a saw from PAX (only £15 and it's British through and through! )

 

[neilyweely]

At the risk of ridicule in such company; I have the 'silverline' flush cutting saw. It is not up to veritas standard, obviously, but has japanese pattern teeth and has no 'set' so can cut dowels without marking the surface surrounding the dowel. It cost a few quid, and looking at it this is apparent. But it works.

I needed it for one job in particular, and I needed it then. But now I am excusing my actions.....I'm just a cheapskate!!

Neil

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I have used/owned several different flush cutting saws, and the best is this Veritas ...

What makes this one stand out is that it is 17 tpi. Compare this with the average Japanese version, at 22 tpi. The Veritas cuts faster and as smoothly.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[John. B]

Well, I'm for the 'Hassunme'. Mine cuts fas,t leaves an edge like it has been planed. Very pleased with it.
Never tried a veritas so can't compare. IMO I think Veritas tools are very nice but overpriced.

John. B

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Graham,

I find it just as easy to cut the dowels nearly flush with an ordinary saw and plane them flush. Quite easy to do without damaging the surrounding surface - and it saves having to buy a special saw :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbloke]

Hi Graham,

I find it just as easy to cut the dowels nearly flush with an ordinary saw and plane them flush. Quite easy to do without damaging the surrounding surface - and it saves having to buy a special saw :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

Same here, I just cut them off with a gents saw and then plane flush - Rob

 

[Toscageoff]

Greetings

I thoroughly recommend the Kugihiki Flush cut saw - Axminster Item 300326

It does what it says on the tin!!

Regards

 

[Benchwayze]

I favour the adjustable mouth, bevel-up block plane.

When you put in your plugs or dowels, do a couple on some scrap timber at the same time. Then experiment on these with your block plane until it's cutting right.

I use a Lie-Nielsen now, but I used to get excellent results with the Stanleys.

I considered a flush-cut saw, but decided to stay with the block planes.

HTH

 

[Joints]

Hi Graham,

I use one of these and can't fault it

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Ice-Bear-Japanese-Hassunme-Crosscut-Saw-19702.htm

Marcus

Ditto. The ideal saw for this sort of job!

 

[Inspector]

Sandpaper.
Me barbarian!!!

 

[chipchaser]

Thanks everybody for all the good advice. It may be even harder to choose a saw now as they are clearly each good in their own way!

Having opened the Irwin packaging I did try a few gentle strokes over the desk top and confirmed that although the set is very fine it does scratch the surface so I think that will go back in the package and back to Screwfix.

I do fancy a Japanese pull saw although I have never owned or even held one. There appears to be an aura of rightness about these traditional looking Japanese tools. Maybe I am just tempted by a new experience?

Veritas are clearly tools appreciated by their owners. Unfortunately I couldn’t find the very handsome wooden handled 17 tpi saw shown in Derek’s post in any UK supplier on the web. I could only find the plastic handled ones with finer teeth. Although not so pretty they are only about £2 more expensive than the competitors which is not so significant when the total cost with postage etc is included.

Found the Pax one which also looks good. I was surprised to find the manufacturer charges £3 more to supply than Classic Hand Tools, mainly due to a high postage charge. I found that Crown also make a similar saw in Sheffield but cheaper. I don’t know how good their saws are although I do have a few of their turning tools which are ok.

Neil, I too like cheap but effective. Toolstation don’t keep them but the DIY shop in the next village keep a few Silverline tools and they could probably get me one. At £4.75 it is hard to resist even if rarely used so I’ll ask them tomorrow.

Paul, Woodbloke and John, I owe it to you to try cutting off and planing. I have two Stanley block planes. One is an old black 220. It doesn’t have an adjustable mouth but the bevel is on top of the blade. The other is a little RB5 with throw away blades meant for modellers. Do you think the 220 would be ok?

Sandpaper: with my skill I know I would end up with a low area all around my dowel end!

Thanks again for all your rapid comments. I’ll try the Silverline cheapie and the planing on a few samples first but think I have to try a Japanese saw.

Regards,

Graham

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Graham

I realise that I missed making a point in my earlier post. It is this -

The blade on the Veritas is more robust (thicker) than the blade on the Japanese versions I have tried. There is a danger with the thinner, multier-toothed Japanese blades that they will twist and kink (DAMHIK). Yes, they are to be pulled, but they still will stick in the tight kerf, and then ...

I have both the Veritas (should that be Veriti?) saws. The black plastic handkled one is a decent saw - just not as good as the wooden version. I use the plastic one for wet glue and keep the wooden one for when it counts.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[adrian]

I started with the plastic handled Veritas that has teeth on both sides of the blade. The teeth are set in one direction. This one is terrible. It rides up in the direction of the set so you still end up with a big lump. It appears from the web page that the single edge one has the same design with the teeth set in one direction. This is not at all the same saw as the wooden handled one previously shown in this thread. Lee Valley sells four different flush cutting saws, and the one Derek posted about is not even listed under "flush cut saws" on their web page but instead is under Japanese Saws.

Woodworking Magazine had a review of flush cutting saws in a recent issue (#8), and based on their recommendation I got the wooden handled "kugihiki" saw sold by Lee Valley but not in the Veritas product line (item 60T06.20). I find that it works quite well. The reviewer said that a better flush cutting saw had a thicker blade (less likely to flex and marr the work), a wider blade (you can hold it down and avoid marring the work and maintain a flush cut), and coarser teeth. He rejected the pax saw because he found it marred his work.

 

[chipchaser]

Derek and Adrian,

Thanks for additional info on the Veritas Japanese saw. Adrian, I was only able to track it down on the Lee Valley site using the item number you kindly supplied. I cannot find that saw anywhere in UK and it would probably work out fairly expensive to buy and have it sent from Canada. The nearest I could find in UK is the 24tpi Kugihiki Noko sold by Axminster.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Ice- ... -20397.htm

The blade is only 0.2mm thick or should I say thin. Derek, would that be the sort that could bind and possibly twist in the cut?

Axminster also sell a Japanese Kumagoro Flushcut Saw the blade of which is 0.5mm thick. As far as I can see they don't specify the tooth pitch so it may also be 24 or so tpi.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Ice- ... 364268.htm


Might that be similar thickness to the Veritas?

Thanks for your help

Graham

 

[neilyweely]

Only thing I would say about the silverline is that you need to make sure the handle is ok. The first one I had had a loose fitting handle, which wasn't so great. I have been to the WS tonight and had another go with the saw, and have to say IMO it is not too bad, and certainly well worth the money. You can get quite a lot of flex from the blade which makes the flush cut easier. Give it a go, and if you don't like it then swap it for some planer blades (cheap but exactly the same as all the other tct reversible blades!!).

HTH

Neil

PS - the larger pull saw is not so good, at least I don't like it. But hey, what do I know?? The only other pull saw I have to compare it with is a japanese model bought back from Japan that cost a small fortune!!