Floating shelves

[misterfish]

Hi everybody

SWMBO (who has much more of a design eye than do I) has suggested some oak bookshelves to be installed in our living room after our upcoming refurbishment.

What is proposed is a number of 3m long shelves made of 40mm thick oak worktop (the stuff made of 50mm staves) fixed to the wall with hidden fixings. These would have a single piece of oak fixed to the exposed edge to cover the finger joints that would show.

There will be no vertical supports and we want no fixings to show, so the only way we can think to support the shelves safely is to drill holes in the wall and resin-bond studding in these holes. Then drill corresponding holes in the rear edge of the shelves and slide the shelves on fixing them permanently with adhesive.

So we wondered if others think this a sensible idea? Also, how many studding supports would we need for each shelf considering the shelf itself would be heavy and holding lots of heavy books. Lastly what diameter should the studding be (and should it be stainless steel)?

Any comments, suggestions or alternatives would be appreciated.

Cheers

MisterFish

 

[LyNx]

i think you may find that the shelves themselves will be too heavy for any concealed fixings.

It will work better if the shelves started out alot lighter.

 

[SketchUp Guru]

I think that would make for some very heavy shelves. You'll want a fixing at every stud in the wall you can hit. Better would be to make a hollow box of plywood and solid wood. Or even thin strips of oak edge glued to get the look of the worktop if that is wanted. Leave the back of the box open to recieve a board that is screwed securely to the wall. Slip the shelf over that board and insert screws from the top to hold the shelf to the board.

I could make a drawing that would explain it better if you can wait a little bit.

My brother did this for the mantle over his fireplace. He held the mantle to the board on the wall with a couple of large cut off nails. The nails are dropped into very slightly over sized holes so they can be removed by hand. This makes it a cinch to paint the wall. He can just pull the nails and remove the mantle and set it aside.

I thought I had a picture of it but this is the best I can do at the moment.

 

[Scrit]

Hi MF

Best way I've found to make these shelves is to build a "composite" shelf with something like two 12mm outers and a 16mm "spacer" in between, certainly cheaper than using solid oak worktop, although it is more work and there is a limit to 2.4metres length. By manufacturing this way there would be no need to do any long drilling at all. I've done solid sycamore shelves in this way and drilling them was not fun. You do need a drill press to drill your holes, or at the very least you need to start off the holes with a router and continue with an auger bit to ensure that it is all true. I'm not so sure that I'd bond the shelves permanently to the support rods - might make decorating a real nightmare. Instead what about tilting your shelf supports back a couple of degrees and maybe incorporating a locking screw for two or more rods on each shelf (screwed from underneath and pinching the support rods). As to the material, stainless steel is generally a better idea with solid oak, although the environment is going into should be dry enough to mean it's not absolutely necessary. Of coars for the MDF composite nmild steel would be just the ticket.

As to the number of supports, what type of wall are you going into? I'd have thought that you'd need to consider 12 to 18in centres with any book shelves in any case.

BTW There are commercially available systems to handle this type of shelf

I'd wait for JasonB on this, though, he's the expert in this area

Scrit

 

[Guy]

Have just finished a set of these for a client, after making a sample out of of a MDF box 50mm thick hollow inside, the customer wanted somethin around 75mm deep.
I ended up buying some hollow cored internal doors cutting them in half length ways and sticking Tas Oak veneered ply to all sides.
I used these brackets from hettich and cost me about $5 each trade. The shelves were 2500mm long and 300mm deep and i used 6 brackets on each one ( maybe overkill)

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[Colin C]

Have a look Here
for the shelf surrports

 

[andrewm]

Have a look Here
for the shelf surrports

I bought a couple of shelves in a sale last year because it was worth it just for the supports. These were similar to the ones that Colin linked to BUT the support rod extended to the rear of the support as well. This meant that to mount them I had to drill a suitable hole into the wall as well as screw holes either side. It did however produce a very sturdy shelf because it eliminated the leverage on the mounting screws.

Anyone know where I can get any more?

Andrew

 

[Paul Chapman]

If you want to have a look at this type of shelf and fitting in the flesh, you could have a look around IKEA. Last time I was in there they had the shelves and the fittings (similar to the ones Colin suggested if I remember correctly) on show. Will give you a good idea of how they work. Their shelves are light but have the heavy, solid look you are after :wink:

Paul

 

[Lord Nibbo]

If you want to have a look at this type of shelf and fitting in the flesh, you could have a look around IKEA. Last time I was in there they had the shelves and the fittings (similar to the ones Colin suggested if I remember correctly) on show. Will give you a good idea of how they work. Their shelves are light but have the heavy, solid look you are after :wink:

Paul

You could buy these and cover them with veneer!!! quicker & cheaper.

 

[Colin C]

You could buy these and cover them with veneer!!! quicker & cheaper.

One small problem with that is trying to stick the veneer to them :wink:

 

[Colin C]

Yuo can also get shelf surports from Here
Half way down the page.

 

[WellsWood]

Hafele also do a range of similar supports.
posting links to them doesn't seem to work for me though, so try these numbers in the search:
283.30.038
283.32.060
283.32.041
if you don't have an account a quick phone call will reveal a number of suppliers dotted around.

None of them seem designed for a shelf over 24mm thick though. I have seen similar things done with plain old galvanised studding cut to length and set in the wall at appropriate intervals.

I'd agree that a hollow box type of shelf would be a good way to go, but it depends what you're going to load the shelves up with once they're up. If it's only going to be light ornamental stuff I guess you can afford to let the supports do the bulk of their work holding the shelf up.

Mark

 

[andrewm]

Hafele also do a range of similar supports.
posting links to them doesn't seem to work for me though, so try these numbers in the search:
283.30.038
283.32.060 <--------
283.32.041
if you don't have an account a quick phone call will reveal a number of suppliers dotted around.

That's them. Thank you.

Andrew

 

[jasonB]

The problem with a lot of the readymade brackets is that you are only relying on plugs and screws, given the depth of shelf the leverage is very high.

For the way I do them have a look at my post towards the end of This thread

I have also done solid ones and not had problems with weight, probably not a lot of difference between MDF and Oak.

Have a look on Screwfix and Ask The Trades forums as well, its been covered in the last 10 days or so.

Jason

 

[Anonymous]

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[misterfish]

Thanks everybody for the experiences and suggestions.

Scrit's suggestion of a composite structure sounds good. I do have an old Axminster drill press - one of their first Far East manufactured ones - and it's accuracy has always been poor with quite a bit of play in the quill - I've promised myself a better replacement in the near future. Anybody got any suggestions for a reasonable quality bench mounted version?

The brackets from Hafele that MarkW has highlighted look good, but as far as I could see I'd need to buy 100 which would (no doubt) be expensive,

I think that I'll probably end up doing them in a similar way to Jason B - they look just right - but I'll have to make sure the holes in the wall are drilled perfectly horizontally!

I wondered about using some of this oak overlay flooring I've seen in a couple of places on the web for the outer layers. Some of this is t&g all round and the butt joints in random length strips may not look too bad.

As these shelves will fit into an alcove - albeit 3 m long - I should probably fix a batton either end and rout a stopped groove in the shelf end so the shelf will slide on and have extra support from the ends especially as we do have a lot of books and even with them spaced with ornaments etc there could be a fair weight.

MisterFish

 

[WellsWood]

As these shelves will fit into an alcove............ MisterFish

Ah.. you didn't say that the first time (or I didn't notice). In that case you should be alright doing as you suggested; a stopped groove in either end which locates over short bolts or a batten on the side walls.

Incidentally, although Hafele price their stock per 100 units it doesn't mean you have to buy them 100 at a time. They do however have a minimum order value of £50 (plus VAT and shipping), and only sell to people with trade accounts, but like I said ring them up and they'll tell you a local retail stockist - most will probably be happy to post you a few.

Mark

 

[misterfish]

Thanks MarkW. It was only when SWMBO actually ponted it out to me that I realised the option was there - the new 'alcove' is going to be left there after we have a number of internal walls removed as part of our renovation. Also, excellent news about Hafele and purchase quantities - mind you with all the 'stuff' they do and that I need/want/like , then £50 minimum will be no problem.

Cheers

MisterFish

 

[WellsWood]

There you go then

Mind, you will still need a trade account though if you are buying direct from them.

Make sure you show us the finished project, you know how we all like our piccies.

Cheers
Mark

 

[misterfish]

Yes, when it's all done I'll do some piccies.

Mind you, don't hold your breath. It's taken us nearly a year to get builders to give us quotes for building and refurbishment and this is all due to start on Thursday week [-o< . So we'll no doubt be without heating, water and electricity during all the upcoming cold spells. But we keep telling ourselves that it'll be worth it in the long run!

MisterFish