Fixed base vs plunging routers?

[woodbloke]

In the latest issue of F&C, there's a review of one of the latest Bosch fixed/plunging base routers. As I've only ever used plunging routers, what's the advantage of the fixed base variant? - Rob

 

[SammyQ]

Rigidity?

 

[Ian]

I have a bosch dual router which and I have the fix based section fitted too my table. the good thing is if I need to use the plunge I remove the motor and fit to the plunge base, no need to remove the fixed base casting. Also I had a few problems a couple of years back with a bosch plunge router fitted to a table and under stress the bit would drop in height. It worked out the stress of the cut was making the router slide down the plunge posts.

The only problem I've had was dust getting into the switch which has to be blown out every so often or it will not start, though I reckon they would have modified that by now.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Oryxdesign]

With the fixed base they are lighter too, more than a kg I think.

 

[woodbloke]

Been away so have just picked up this one again...thanks for the replies. What I'm interested in is any advantage (apart from the weight) in using a fixed base router at the bench, what does it do that a plunging router can't? - Rob

 

[Paul Chapman]

what does it do that a plunging router can't?

A lot less I would think. In particular, if you want to start or finish a cut in from the edge of the piece, it would be quite difficult (which is why they invented the plunge router).

Cheers :ho2

Paul

 

[Shrubby]

I'm with Paul - a plunge router is more usefull
I inherited one and gave it away.The design makes them dusty to use.The motor blows its cooling air straight down onto the cutting point (chip blowers might have been a selling point in the olden days ! )
Matt

 

[Alf]

What I'm interested in is any advantage (apart from the weight) in using a fixed base router at the bench, what does it do that a plunging router can't?

It can't loosen its plunge lock suddenly and without warning, ruining both template and workpiece. Guess why that came to mind...

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I've had the dual base Bosch in our workshop for years, and have never used the fixed base (beyond testing originally, ages ago). Just can't see what use it would be, other than the flexibility of being able to use the same motor and keep one base fixed to the table.

But as I've yet to find any router to compete with Triton's little one for table routing, I leave that permanently in the table. They don't cost a huge amount and are the best designed I've ever found for table routing. Jeremy Broun swears by the DeWalt 612 (or is it 621) for router tables.

 

[woodbloke]

It can't loosen its plunge lock suddenly and without warning, ruining both template and workpiece. Guess why that came to mind...

I've been using a plunging Bosch router 'ordinaire' for yonks now and the plunge lock has never released. Now if you were to mention not tightening the fence screws prior to a cut that would be a different matter entirely...

So, general consensus is that the plunge base variant is to be preferred? - Rob

 

[Nick Gibbs]

So, general consensus is that the plunge base variant is to be preferred? - Rob

Is this for table routing, hand routing or both?

 

[andy king]

My own preference for inverted routing is a DeWalt 625, but fitted with a RouterRaizer and an Xtreme Xtension (I got both from Woodworkers Workshop - http://www.woodworkersworkshop.co.uk)
Not cheap, but you then have above the table adjustment for height alteration as well as ultra fast bit swaps, again from abaove and with no spanners or spindle locks to contend with.
I fitted mine a few years back and since then the Trend T11, the DW625 clone arrived, complete with built in above the table height adjustment, so if I was looking again, i'd likely go for that one, but still with the Xtreme Xtension. The Trend also has adaptors for running rails etc.
With regards to the fixed/plunge base question, as the fixed bases have no springs, they adjust very quickly and easily inverted, and with the original Bosch one, there's a fine tune as well, and bit swapping is easy as the motor assembly comes away from the base so you can do it on the bench.
The Makita 3601B however is a different kettle of lobsters altogether. I assume they thought they were missing out so launched an old model, but to say it was the wrong choice is an understatement in my mind! :shock:
Single speed is bad enough(considering the price, and what's expected of a router nowadays) but with the cable running through the handle into the motor, it cannot detach, so you have to get under the table to alter or swap - it's a pain!
It's only 930 watts as well, for a 1/2in router, way under powered!
Plunge is also limited, just 30mm iirc, and going back to the cable problem, another one that springs to mind is that it has to sit tightly within the handle/body void, turning sharply back on itself, almost in a kinked fashion, and is highly likely to be prone to failure because of it imho.

Cheers,
Andy

PS. Forgot to add - if you fancy a look at a dual base router without shelling out too much cash, have a look at the Draper model.
It's very, very good, and an excellent bit of kit for the money,.
Way better than the Makita, and has removable motor, and good component build quality.

 

[Digit]

I'm with Alf! I am just now wondering how many dovetail jigs have been damaged with plunge locks slipping?
I use both types, horses for courses I think.

Roy.

 

[ondablade]

There was a post recently on the US Felder owner's group talking of run out causing a problem when using a small diameter (round over?) router bit.

It's not something I ever thought of, but I wonder if this surfaces very often as an issue in most people's experience, and if so might it be worse with a plunge router?

I've not seen it, but my experience is limited. It wouldn't necessarily surface as an issue in a router table...

 

[Nick Gibbs]

of run out causing a problem when using a small diameter (round over?) router bit.

Do you know what they mean by run out?

 

[andy king]

Hello Nick!

I've experienced runout with a router or two, which I assume maybe a reference to differences in slight profile depths as you run around an edge. My first experience was dropping my elu96 which put the base marginally out of whack, but i've also seen it on a budget model where the base didn't plunge in a parallel plane, giving the same problem.
But another way is from concentricity to the collet. If you use a machine with a guide bush, if the bush isn't fitted perfectly central to the cutter, as you move around the template or jig it can introduce slight differences in the profile, so a quirk will vary on it's width for example ( or depth if the base isn't parallel)
Some jigs come with a setup pin to eliminate such errors on the guide bushes, but a bad base is a bad base!
You can also experience it with a round based machine where the base isn't smack on central with the shaft so if you use the edge of the base against a batten, guide etc, if rotate the router as you work the profile, it runs out.

cheers,
Andy

 

[ondablade]

Sorry guys, I was a bit sloppy in both my reading of the FOG material, and in how I posed the question. Going back to FOG and checking it again it seems they were probably talking of several separate problems - very similar to what you mention Andy.

One was the router base not being accurately square to the axis of the shaft - with the resulting height variation becoming potentially a larger problem especially with either very small cutters (e.g. small radius round over bits), or larger diameter bits when the same side of the base is not always doing the guiding.

The other was misalignments arising from using some makes of router shaft extension - simple eccentricity arising from e.g. the tightening of a slit sleeve with a bit too much clearance as well as machining errors - leading to vibration and cutting mostly off one side of the bit. Also I think as a result of the extension possibly being tilted a little on the router shaft so that the end and the cutter are 'whirled' - i.e. the two not being truly co-axial.

Concentricity of guide bushes is of course an issue as you say too, as is presumably concentricity of the outer diameter of the base with the shaft - but the FOG guys seemed to be talking mostly about the above.

The situation seems likely to be potentially a bigger issue with a plunge router than with a fixed base - slop in the guides and the extra height would add inaccuracies.

My personal reason for asking is because I have a fairly old but sound De Walt DW625, a Router Raizer and an Extreme Extension much like you, and am about to fit the whole lot in an Incra router table with an eye to using it for joinery. So far my routing has been fairly crude and hand held, but maybe less so in future - and a few thou run out doubles the error in the case of a slot for example.

The gist of the FOG feedback seemed to suggest that the problems mostly arose out of base squareness and extension misalignments - that the original shafts ran pretty true with the body. I guess cutter concentricity could be an issue too.

I'd not really thought of this sort of issue arising, and am hoping that problems won't emerge with my set up - so hence my question as to what the experience here has been with various routers and extensions. The combination of some eccentricity and misalignment could really throw out the accuracy if using a router to mill e.g. mortices - especially with an extension.

Somebody on FOG then mentioned that it was maybe good reason to buy e.g. a premium router like a Festool, but that was seemingly shot down by another reporting measurements that seemed to show very similar issues there to more ordinary makes.

PS Maybe it'd be useful to explore some of these issues for a mag article - if they haven't been done already.....

 

[Alf]

I've been using a plunging Bosch router 'ordinaire' for yonks now and the plunge lock has never released.

Yeah, well you could argue I was asking for it and it shouldn't have been unexpected, 'cos that experience was with a Power Devil. Never was a router better named...

*succinct and informative post on likely causes of router run out*

I also reckon this has mag article written all over it - if it hasn't already been done. Too often one assumes it's operator error; it'd never occur to me that the base might be out of parallel, for instance.

 

[LuptonM]

I've been using a plunging Bosch router 'ordinaire' for yonks now and the plunge lock has never released.

Yeah, well you could argue I was asking for it and it shouldn't have been unexpected, 'cos that experience was with a Power Devil. Never was a router better named...
.

The bosch plunge mechanism is really stiff (at least on the bosch 1400 pof ace). My dad's actually got a power devil router (it cost him £12) and its actually not bad. Its nice and light so its good for free hand stuff and u can see what u are routing fairly easily. The plunging action could be a bit stiffer though. However it is also much nosier than my bosch but I prefer using it most of the time over the bosch. Maybe one day I'll get one of those little bosch routers but they're pricy

 

[andy king]

I also reckon this has mag article written all over it - if it hasn't already been done. Too often one assumes it's operator error; it'd never occur to me that the base might be out of parallel, for instance.

There will now be a short interlude while me and Nick have a quick game of 'Rock, Scissors, Paper' to decide who gets to do it first! :lol:

cheers,
Andy