First venture into hardwood - advice needed

[Orion801]

Hi all,

I'm planning on making a small magazine and newspaper holder (a very simple design - basically an open topped box with a high back-piece) and am planning on using hardwood. I'm still relatively new to woodworking and have so far only used pine (cheap whitewood rather than redwood) but have been having huge problems with it warping, and my hand planing skills aren't really up to flattening the hugely cupped boards that I end up trying to work with.

Due to this I thought I would spend a little extra on the wood in the hope that I end up wasting less of it (and end up with a nicer looking finished article as it's going to be a present for my Grandma). I live fairly close to Sykes timber so am planning on sourcing the wood from them as they have a fairly large selection of hardwoods and were recommended to me by the guys at Axminster. I'm looking for something that will be as dimensionally stable as possible without breaking the bank. I'm also thinking I should probably avoid some of the more exotic woods as I currently only have a basic dust-mask and use a vacuum cleaner for my dust extraction.

In my searches of the forums I've seen tulipwood (poplar) mentioned as a good option, so will be looking into that. I was wondering if anybody would recommend anything else?

 

[marcus]

Ash is a lot nicer than tulip wood, (which is usually used for painted work), and easy to get hold of, and not too expensive.

But all wood will move, and with hard wood it is more work to plane it flat! Might be a good idea to get the hand planing skills sorted (really not that hard) then you are free to work with what you want without worry

 

[JakeS]

I'm also thinking I should probably avoid some of the more exotic woods as I currently only have a basic dust-mask and use a vacuum cleaner for my dust extraction.

For what it's worth, not all exotic woods are bad for you, and some native woods can be problematic for some people! This is the biggest table of possible wood sensitivities/toxicities that I know of: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclon ... yTable.cfm

Also bear in mind that depending on what tools you're using (and thus what kind of dust you're making) your dust mask is quite possibly not helping at all and your vacuum cleaner is quite possibly just throwing the dust into the air more. Especially if you're using power tools that produce fine float-in-the-air dust, it's really worth getting a good-fitting filter-based mask and working either somewhere well-ventilated, or somewhere where the dust can be contained.




As to your wood question, how do you plan to finish the piece? If you're painting it, for example, you may prefer something with a tighter, closed grain so that the surface can be made as smooth as possible before painting, or you may prefer a really obvious grain so that it looks 'woody'; if you're not, you may prefer a nicely-figured wood so that when you oil it, it looks nice, or you may prefer something featureless because you plan to stain it red or something. Tulipwood is reasonably solid and cheap but boring to look at, but finishes up smoother and less 'grainy' than ash, for example. Ash is solid and strong, but harder to get a completely smooth finish out of.

(Also, for what it's worth: in my experience proper pine is usually less likely to warp than the crappy whitewood (spruce and so on) that you get in B&Q. The difference in general quality between the pine that I get from a local place and the miscellaneous 'softwood' in DIY shops is almost as pronounced as the difference between the pine and stuff like ash or oak.)

 

[Orion801]

Thanks for all the information. I think I should probably invest in a better mask, and possibly some proper extraction system at some point (when I can afford it!).

I was planning on having a natural or stained finish rather than painted so maybe ash would be a good one to go for.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Sykes are a great and very knowledgeable timber yard you are lucky if they are your local, Whitmore’s are also good and only 10 miles or so from Sykes these are two of the yards I take my students to, and very soon weather permitting. The guys in either yard will give you sound advice as to what’s available.
We use Poplar for practice joints, jigs and painted work as it is relatively cheap works fairly well and is easy to plane.
On our beginners course we use Chestnut which looks similar to Oak without the medullary rays but is much softer and easier to use for hand work although this is prone to ring shake.
We have been using American Ash on our table making course but you may not want to use this if you want a stained item, saying that I would stay away from staining if possible and choose a timber of the colour you are trying to achieve.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Thanks Peter - all that's been filed away for future reference!

Cheers,

E.

 

[Steve Maskery]

The problem I have with Sykes is that they charge a 50% premium on small orders. And by "small" I mean 10 cubic feet. That's not small to me.
At least, they used to, perhaps they are more accommodating in these hard times, but check your prices.
S

 

[Orion801]

Looks like I live right in between Sykes and whitmores so am spoilt for choice! Think I'll go visit whitmores when the snow clears up as its only a 15 minute drive according to google. Thanks for the advice!

 

[johngraves]

+1 for Sykes. Very very helpful

 

[Steve Maskery]

Whitmore's is excellent, but phone ahead. They expect you to book a slot. And they will charge you different prices according to whether you take boards as they rise or select your particular boards.
S

 

[Fromey]

I don't have much experience with wood, but my current favourite for ease of working is beech.

 

[Peter Sefton]

Sykes are one of the more expensive yards around but know how to look after their timber; they have some of the cleanest Ripple sycamore around which most yards will not attempt drying. They will not let you wonder around pulling from the stack but will select boards and move them to the despatch yard where you can then pick your own.
Whitmore’s are cheaper but always charge us £50 delivery whether we buy £50 or £2000, they will allow you to select from the stack but you will need to book an appointment they have four time slots per day when they will appoint you a yard hand selector to show you around.
When buying timber it’s not the cost per cube that’s the only factor; you can get lots of timber that’s cheap but full of defects.
Both yards have vacuum kilns although Sykes don’t use theirs much these days, the timbers they both stock are under cover in drying sheds but will need final drying by the customer if being used for furniture going into a dry house.

 

[Dangermouse]

Hi all,

I'm planning on making a small magazine and newspaper holder (a very simple design - basically an open topped box with a high back-piece) and am planning on using hardwood. I'm still relatively new to woodworking and have so far only used pine (cheap whitewood rather than redwood) but have been having huge problems with it warping, and my hand planing skills aren't really up to flattening the hugely cupped boards that I end up trying to work with.

As has been said before there is pine and then there is Pine. most of the so called pine one finds for sale these days is packing case or pallette grade rubbish. If you can find some really nice hard pine that can be as good as some hardwood. I was using some old pitch pine last year to restore a Victorian Welsh dresser, now that was lovely wood to work with !