Festool with sawstop.

[TRITON]

What do we reckon on the festool saw bench ?. Im thinking of ditching the axminster TS250 and redoing the workshop to give me more room. Sawbench i have including the right hand extension is really too big, and if i fit the sliding assembly, its just too much space being taken up that leaves little for actual assembly.

I like the festool basically as its going to hold its price, will be accurate and easier to use, and with sawstop its going to be a lot safer. Deep ripping 80mm each cut on the Axminster always leaves me feeling a tad nervous.

And was intending to swop out the 10" bandsaw for the axminster hobby 14". But its the saw bench I think I should start with as its £1800.

 

[akirk]

on my shopping list… the research I have done seems to conclude:
good table saw, but not the best, expensive, but the sawstop technology means it is what I will buy

 

[Ollie78]

It seems like a pretty good idea if you`re in the market for a new saw anyway, a bit of extra finger insurance.

I am not sure why the original sawstop cabinet saw is not available in Europe.
Probably not relevant to your particular need (or budget) but Felder have a system which is like sawstop but non destructive, you just push a button and the blade comes back up.

Ollie

 

[akirk]

The felder system is awesome, but it is only going to be on their top table for now which is 10x the festool sawstop table

 

[Ollie78]

The felder system is awesome, but it is only going to be on their top table for now which is 10x the festool sawstop table

Yes, of course it is currently very expensive and as I said not really relevant to Tritons use case.
But the cat is out of the bag. It proves it can be done without destroying the blade. It will trickle down and be on Hammers in a few years.
Hopefully some nerds with an arduino a webcam and some scrap machines will come up with a budget retro fit version any time now.

Ollie

 

[Inspector]

Got a link to the Festool? I have the original SawStop and while a trigger does wreck a blade and a brake it’s a far cry better than your skin and what’s under it. It could take a long time before a Felder type system makes its way down to everyone’s shop.
Pete

 

[Doug B]

I finally got to see the Festool saw stop at one of their roadshows a couple of weeks ago, I was impressed with the general build & quality of the saw, the sliding table seemed to work well which for me is the most used part of a table saw.

Took a video of the sawstop in action apparently Festool have made the trigger time quicker you could hardly see a mark on the demonstration sausage even though the canine member of the audience was looking distinctly worried about it
Sorry about the sound I was standing by the extractor.

 

[HamsterJam]

Pretty sure Bosch developed a non-destructive braking system for a site saw but couldn’t bring it to market because of the Sawstop patent.
Shame as it means a lot of potential users are missing out on this safety feature.

 

[Spectric]

I don't think this does much for safety, you can never protect a numpty for ever and by instilling a false level of machine safety just means they will be more prone to injury on another machine or when using someone elses saw without that feature. Do you remove your dogs teeth in case it decides to bite or learn to live with it and just understand its temperament!!

 

[Sandyn]

Took a video of the sawstop in action apparently Festool have made the trigger time quicker you could hardly see a mark on the demonstration sausage

That is very impressive. I see they all have so much confidence in the design they use sausages to test it.

 

[Inspector]

Doug Festool’s saw looks like the one they were showing a couple years ago. It used the same brake cartridge as ours here. I suspect the one you saw was the same and no faster. When the saw detects flesh it sends current through a wire holding a spring in compression, melting it like a fuse. The spring instantly pushes the aluminum block into the blade stopping it. The momentum of the blade stopping drops it below the table much like running into a rope stretched at throat height.

Here is a YouTube of a hand instead of a sausage.

Bosch did make one that didn’t stop the blade but dropped it below the table undamaged. It had two “saves” to a cartridge before needing to be replaced. If memory serves it was a slower process than the SawStop so the potential for a bigger cut existed.

Pete

 

[Doug B]

I don't think this does much for safety, you can never protect a numpty for ever and by instilling a false level of machine safety just means they will be more prone to injury on another machine or when using someone elses saw without that feature. Do you remove your dogs teeth in case it decides to bite or learn to live with it and just understand its temperament!!

Yes but people can be inherently stupid.
Ask the latter part of your comment to the idiots who leave children unattended to be mauled & in some cases killed by so called friendly family pet dogs.

You only have to watch you tube to see supposedly competent woodworkers completely ignoring table saw safety, 30,000 table saw accidents a year speak for themselves.

You won’t stop people being idiots, how many hobbyists go & get approved training before buying a table saw yet it must be one of the commonest machines bought, if nothing else saw stop could save the nhs money.

 

[Spectric]

You only have to watch you tube to see supposedly competent woodworkers completely ignoring table saw safety,

Not just table saw safety but safety in any guise, and I think some of the antics on you tube are even more worrying because to me it appears that the person is totally oblivious to the hazards they are exposing themselves to. Having worked in safety critcal enviroments the one thing we always said was that the only real safety control system is one where no human interaction is required and the process is automatic, put a human in the process and you add far to many excuses as to why it will fail at the critical moment.

As I said you cannot protect people from there own stupidity, the human race can be inherently stupid as demonstrated by this pandemic which has clearly highlighted this with the vast number of people just ignoring all covid precautions and acting like they are somehow immune, same attitude as the person who falls off a ladder by over stretching or losing some digits on a saw so really just let natural selection prevail.

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I don't think this does much for safety

This is a bizarre comment. It's essentially impossible to cut your fingers off on a tablesaw with one of these systems. Obviously people should act safely around machinery, but we put guards on machines for good reason. This removes a significant risk factor, just as guards, push sticks, and riving knives do.

 

[Spectric]

As I said I have worked in an industry where safety was paramount, safety does not start with machinery guards or other safety measures, it starts with the mindset and is a system of protective layers or measures. A safe workforce takes nothing for granted and needs to be always aware of hazzards, the worst synario is a complacent workforce where they can become robotic and take things for granted, I believe things like the Sawstop can instill the wrong mindset into someone and then one day they are working in another workshop using someone elses saw and they have been conditioned into sawstop mentality and make a silly error that they would have got away with in their workshop but not this time, to late as they realise there was no sawstop to protect them.

 

[alan895]

This is a bizarre comment. It's essentially impossible to cut your fingers off on a tablesaw with one of these systems. Obviously people should act safely around machinery, but we put guards on machines for good reason. This removes a significant risk factor, just as guards, push sticks, and riving knives do.

Personally I cant buy into the technology and I don't think I ever would if became more accessible over here. The attitudes towards it being the best thing ever which can be found all over the 'net I cant read without at least one raised eyebrow. I would be a little more concerned in trying to eliminate any possibility of a workpiece kicking back, the insert plate on my saw is red which is a sign for me to not put any part of myself near there.

 

[Doug71]

I always leave the blade guard on and use push sticks. I don't use my table saw for cutting any kind of joints or small pieces etc so hopefully my fingers should never get near the blade.

I think saw stop is a great safety feature but I know if my saw had it I would end up being a lot more casual on the safety front.

If I still employed people I would definitely be investing in one though.

 

[Spectric]

We know there are a lot of table saw accidents in proportion to other woodworking machinery but you have to ask yourself why. That spining blade looks and is dangerous so that should be more than enough to make people approach with extreme caution, perhaps they should paint black and yellow strips on the blade so it stands out even more. Therefore are there other factors at play here, the one that comes to mind is that for many home woodworkers space is a premium and so it could also be that working in more cramped spaces with your tablesaw is increasing the risk and or clutter around the working area.

 

[Ollie78]

I see both sides of the argument regarding safety. Of course the best safety is prevention and paying attention. However, accidents do happen regardless.

My suggestion is fit Sawstop to all table saws, just don't tell anyone.

Ollie

 

[Sporky McGuffin]

I believe things like the Sawstop can instill the wrong mindset into someone and then one day they are working in another workshop using someone elses saw and they have been conditioned into sawstop mentality and make a silly error that they would have got away with in their workshop but not this time, to late as they realise there was no sawstop to protect them.

By that argument we should remove all safety measures just in case another workshop doesn't have one of them!