Festool TSC 55 cordless plunge saw - Riving knife vs KickBackStop model?

[miguel_s]

Hi all, been lurking a good while but finally had a more specific question to ask.

I've settled on picking up a cordless festool TSC55 track saw. I'm a relative beginner - just going the DIY route for cabinetry / built-ins at home.

Mostly going to be using sheet goods but occasionally will be ripping hard woods like 22mm thick poplar/tulipwood or rock maple for face frames and shaker door rails/stiles.

I've come to notice that there are two models to choose from - the older 2.2mm kerf model REB with the riving knife, and the newer 1.8 kerf KEB model with the anti kickback mechanism that has no riving knife. I'd love to hear opinions on the comparison of the two safety models - I could only really find older threads from when the change was announced rather than any hands-on perspective since the model change.

On one hand I'm thinking the anti kickback model might be safer to prevent general user-error kickback accidents if exclusively cutting sheet goods (especially as a newcomer to track saws), but would I be right to be nervous about the lack of riving knife for my occasional intended use of hardwoods mentioned above? I've seen people mention inserting shims into the kerf once the cut is started, which maybe could be a compromise to get best of both worlds in the few times I rip hardwood?

I'll probably be picking whichever model second hand, so the REB being older isn't as much of an issue for me.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sometimewoodworker]

My experience of using a tracksaw is that in 15 years of cutting mostly sheet goods with probably 10% of the use in hardwoods I have never experienced kickback. I have a riving knife on my saw.
However kickback on a tracksaw is a rare occurrence and not at all worrying. Only if you use the tracksaw without the track is it more likely.
Kickback incidents, while not exclusive to table saws, are vast more dangerous on them.

My opinion, others may disagree.

 

[Distinterior]

I have the REB model with the riving knife and I also have the 240v version, also with a riving knife. I decided on the knife version for the following reasons.

I have yet to try one of the newer knife-less versions of either saw, but I have to say, having used both of my saws extensively, I prefer the thought of an actual riving knife rather than the safety feature that supposedly prevents potential kickbacks.

I've found , especially recently, that even when cutting sheet materials, the boards have a lot of built in tension in them and especially when cutting long thin sections, they can warp & bend quite dramatically whilst being cut. An actual riving knife does help prevent the boards from nipping up on the blade during the cut, but I imagine the new versions may potentially be activating the safety cutout and just cutting a few strips could turn into a right PITA....

Another factor that I considered was,.... I would need to buy & replace a load of the thinner blades coz the 2.2mm kerf blades wont fit in the newer versions of the saw.

 

[Spectric]

Look at how many tracksaws have one compared to how many don't. My Makita does not have one and never had any problems . Also before tracksaws I used a Bosch circular saw and again no riving knife but never any issues. It could be because these saws use small blades and less powerful motors so are likely to just jam if the blade gets gripped, that was certainly the case for a cordless Dewalt a guy was using to cut some 4x2's in a yard for me.

 

[Sideways]

The first job I did after swapping a festool TS55REBQ with a riving knife for a Mafell MF55 with electronic anti kickback control was a load of 3 metre rips in 2" softwood.
There was certainly tension in that wood and I could feel the electronics modulating the saw as I went along the track. It worked fine so I'm happy that both methods work.
There seems to be just one advantage of the electronic approach, you can plunge straight down into the middle of a board if you want to without having to bother about a riving knife. Not something I'd do everyday...

 

[deema]

Take a look at the Mafel saw…..IMO much nicer. @Sideways had both the Festool and Mafell….guess which he sold I bought the Mafell after trying both of his.

 

[Spectric]

I have also read that the Bosch / Mafel tracks have a superior method when it comes to joining them together, better alignment apparently but someone can confirm ? My final two in the running was the Makita and the Mafell but went Makita as it was recomended by @JobandKnock and brought a Domino 700 to keep the lawnmower company with the change. The Bosch is also very similar.

 

[fleyh]

There seems to be just one advantage of the electronic approach, you can plunge straight down into the middle of a board if you want to without having to bother about a riving knife.

I am a MT55 user but from memory - the riving knife on the TS55 is spring-loaded, so it does not interfere with "middle of the board" plunges.

 

[miguel_s]

Thanks for the replies so far!

The Mafell I've noticed isn't as readily available on the second hand market and seems to be more expensive than the festool generally. The best I'm seeing new for the festool is around £850 for the cordless saw, a couple of batteries and 2x 1400 rails, or around £5-600 for roughly the same kit used, which is about my budget. Also considered the Makita for a good saving and bosch for just slightly less than the festool by the time all the kit is added up, but so far after many many reviews and threads I had to narrow in on a decision and for various reasons am somewhat set on the festool line!

It really came down to riving knife vs anti kickback models and which of the two safety modules suit my needs and experience best. I read that Festool claims the thinner blade and higher RPM is better able to cut itself loose if it does get jammed up? But equally read elsewhere that a thicker blade would have more stability, so not quite sure what to make of both arguments.

It seems the consensus that kickback on track saws is much rarer and less dangerous than a table saw, but I have also come across a few stories and videos that make me think I'd quite like to take advantage of any features that reduce those risks - again, especially as I'm not super experienced and the price difference to saws without either feature aren't night and day.

Is anyone here happily ripping hardwood on a 1.8mm KEB version and happy to vouch for it in that department?

Thanks again!

 

[Jake]

I am a MT55 user but from memory - the riving knife on the TS55 is spring-loaded, so it does not interfere with "middle of the board" plunges.

Exactly, can't see how anyone who has used one for any time could forget that really.

I'd buy the riving knife version myself. I don't see thin kerf as an upgrade, more something driven by battery life.

 

[Spectric]

and for various reasons am somewhat set on the festool line!

I think going by all the reviews that where the festool scores higher than the others is in dust extraction which is handy if working indoors but when it comes to cutting ability there is little difference.

This is a comparison I did some time back so ignore prices.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/track-saw.127409/

 

[Sideways]

Exactly, can't see how anyone who has used one for any time could forget that really.

Trust me, that's easy at my age
I don't use the tracksaw every day and haven't ever needed to make that plunge cut into the middle of a board.

The Festool is a good saw but there has been an interesting change in the market over time. The Mafell used to sell for about £100 more than the Festool. A couple of summers back, that seemed to reverse and I was able to sell my good used Festool for enough to buy a brand new Mafell.
I prefer the Mafell and I find the longer 1600mm track and the joining system much better than the Festool 1400mm tracks so that worked for me.

 

[Distinterior]

I'm sure I remember reading something recently where some people were finding the thinner saw blades were vibrating or cutting wonky...?
Not sure if it was on here or somewhere else?

I can understand the principle of a thinner kerf blade requiring less power to cut through the same material, but I still prefer the idea of a proper riving knife. Not necessarily for protection against kickback as such, but more for the reason I described in my earlier post.

And yes, both my TS55's have spring loaded riving knives.

 

[Spectric]

When you look at Bosch / Mafel they both have 1400 Watts and spin faster at upto 6250Rpm which must give them some advantage, but Makita do a 3 metre rail so it is all horses for courses.

 

[Jake]

Trust me, that's easy at my age
I don't use the tracksaw every day and haven't ever needed to make that plunge cut into the middle of a board.

The Festool is a good saw but there has been an interesting change in the market over time. The Mafell used to sell for about £100 more than the Festool. A couple of summers back, that seemed to reverse and I was able to sell my good used Festool for enough to buy a brand new Mafell.
I prefer the Mafell and I find the longer 1600mm track and the joining system much better than the Festool 1400mm tracks so that worked for me.

Fair enough.

I use that all the time though, cutting out shapes, plunge in, pull back to the mark, push over the other mark, finish off the shallow bits where cuts meet with a hand saw. Much quicker and neater than a jigsaw as long as the shape being cut out is big enough and has straight sides.

Mafell does look nice, but I have too much other stuff for the Festool tracks, routers etc. Anyway, I've had had my TS for donkeys years and not replaced it for the newer or the yet newer one. It owes me nothing and is more than good enough, even if some improvements have been since. Some of those do sound useful but not enough for me to justify replacement to myself. Now they've gone to thin kerf, I can't see myself doing so.

I gave up on joining rails after about 5 minutes and bought a 3m rail which is better than any system involving having to join two just from an ease/ speed perspective.

 

[Sideways]

I never had any issue with the standard Festool blades. I believe they're made for them by Leitz who make superb saw blades. Rather, I have it in mind to buy and fit Festool 2.2mm kerf blades to the Mafell saw in place of the 1.8mm when I need new ones in future. I don't think losing 1mm on the depth of cut or a fraction of a mm more kerf is anything to worry about and the bores are the same.
I hung onto my Festool rip blades and a Bosch blue blade for aluminium etc, so I've got more variety in 2.2mm than in thin kerf

 

[TRITON]

Cordless is ok but its more site orientated, if you are working from home in a workshop 240v(or 110v) will give you more power and longer use.

Look at how many tracksaws have one compared to how many don't. My Makita does not have one and never had any problems . Also before tracksaws I used a Bosch circular saw and again no riving knife but never any issues. It could be because these saws use small blades and less powerful motors so are likely to just jam if the blade gets gripped, that was certainly the case for a cordless Dewalt a guy was using to cut some 4x2's in a yard for me.

Its less likely because its in board material. Only really presents a kick back issue if it is in solid timber which as we know can move as tensions are released and close up on the blade- at the rear.

 

[Adam W.]

You won't be unhappy with the cordless model.

 

[Spectric]

Cordless is only cordless if you are not using any extraction hose otherwise you are tethered and might as well have the benefits of corded.

 

[Distinterior]

Although the efficiency of the dust extraction on my corded TS55 is really very good ( I usually use a 36mm dia hose....), I have been impressed by the dust collection of the cordless version with its dust bag fitted......Admittedly, it's not as good which is to be expected, but having no hose or cable to get in the way certainly helps, especially when working out on a job.

For a couple of quick cuts, it is now my "go to" choice!